Defend Youngstown... or Profit from Youngstown?
Does anyone know how much income Youngstown Nation generated during its first year of operation? I heard Phil denied releasing such information that is mandatory to be revealed upon request by a good source, which raises the question: how much exactly is Phil profiting from his Youngstown gift shop?
It is very, very interesting to discover that he filed to terminate his non-profit business Youngstown Nation Inc. on 7/28/2013 [1] and filed a for-profit business named Youngstown Nation, LLC on 7/22/2013 [2].
This should raise some questions to Phil's motives. Why is he reluctant to share how much Youngstown Nation Inc. generated in their first year of operation? What exactly is Phil accomplishing by selling t-shirts for $20? T-shirts are not all that expensive to print, he is paying somewhere between $3-5 a shirt.
Referring back to a Vindicator article in 2007 [3], he boosts that he had quit counting how many of the original "Defend Youngstown" shirts he has sold at 4,000 but estimates he has sold 7,000. If he truly had sold 7,000 of those, that is $140,000 before expense. Factoring in 25% for the cost of the shirt and printing, that results in a $105,000 profit. Absolutely insane.
I just don't understand why so many people view him as a saint of Youngstown. What exactly does he do for the community aside from picking up trash in the morning and attend random events & meetings? He's not bringing in jobs. He's not even a property owner and can clearly afford to be one (he was making $41,000/year that year he was city planner; left that position to go work at the MVOC before starting up the physical Youngstown Nation store).
Sources:
1 - http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:0::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:2118330 (http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:0::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:2118330)
2 - http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:0::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:2216629 (http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:0::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:2216629)
3 - http://www4.vindy.com/content/local_regional/288598405126702.php (http://www4.vindy.com/content/local_regional/288598405126702.php)
Why do you care? So what if he is profiting from it? It's called capitalism.
Hey! it has always been my job to blow the whistle on community organizers.
What is your interest in questioning Mr. Youngstown?
Quote from: stewie on August 31, 2013, 06:29:27 PM
Why do you care? So what if he is profiting from it? It's called capitalism.
It's a big deal to profit when you are a non-profit. Kind of fishy to silently switch over to "for-profit" status...
Quote from: Youngstownshrimp on August 31, 2013, 10:23:59 PM
Hey! it has always been my job to blow the whistle on community organizers.
What is your interest in questioning Mr. Youngstown?
I just don't get why people think he's so important when he's just a guy who sits in a storefront the size of a walk-in closet and doesn't really do anything of value. I also think he is just using Youngstown for personal gain.
Most of us on this site know who each of us are.
Kindly explain where are you coming from and what are your views of Youngstown.
Also, you can go on the news outlet and Kidd writes for that site. Read the archives here and you will see a history of the Kiddster from years ago.
PK wants to take my place as Mr. Youngstown.
It is very possible that his tax exempt application was denied based upon his business model. A non profit organization has to serve a public purpose, but what was that purpose other than operating a gift shop downtown? The money that YN made from the gift shop would have been declared as unrelated busness income, and if that amount is eyond a certain percantage higher than what he makes from contributions and public support then it would jeopardize his tax exempt status. UBI would not apply if Phil works as a volunteer without pay, but I don't think he does that. So in this case converting the business over to a for profit status would be the only option.
Could you please tell me who is selling full color screen printed T shirts for $3 to $5 each as I would like to change suppliers then! I have a local shop make up my Youngstown Steel Heritage shirts for $8.00 each in two colors, and another out of town place is making some direct printed shirts for $9.50 each. $20 retail leaves about $10.50 to $12.00 out of which the overhead of running the shop has to be paid. That is not out of line with reality.
I don't much care for the overall tone of your post TrueDevotion. Please familiarize yourself with some of the rights and privileges of living in the United States, chief among them is the ability to do what we want with our lives without interference from others. If Phil wants to run a gift shop downtown and gets enough customers to stay in business then so be it. It is not for us to judge. I also disagree that he is not bringing in jobs. He went from being paid by tax money to making his own way as an entrepreneur, and that should be commended. That is 1 job there that he created, and whoever is making the shirts is also benefiting. But even judging a person's or a business's success on jobs created is incorrect. A job is simply a means to an end and is not an end to itself. What is important is what is being produced, not the number of people producing.
The one question that should be asked is if whatever assets that were left from YN were indeed disbursed to another non profit organization as required by their articles of incorporation. His new for profit cannot simply assume ownership of the merchandise and bank account balances and still be in compliance with the law.
Quote from: Rick Rowlands on September 01, 2013, 12:42:46 PM
Could you please tell me who is selling full color screen printed T shirts for $3 to $5 each as I would like to change suppliers then! I have a local shop make up my Youngstown Steel Heritage shirts for $8.00 each in two colors, and another out of town place is making some direct printed shirts for $9.50 each. $20 retail leaves about $10.50 to $12.00 out of which the overhead of running the shop has to be paid. That is not out of line with reality.
Unless you are ordering small quantities of shirts, you are grossly overpaying. No way you should be paying $12. I don't know much about how his fancy t-shirt business works but no way in heck is he paying more than $4-6 bucks a shirt. Check with Trolio's in Boardman or Eagle Wear in Hubbard.
And as far as my beef with Phil Kidd goes................. I just don't like him, I don't trust him.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2m2i91t.jpg)
Why doesn't the great Defender pay his parking tickets?
Is that a list of parking violations for the City of Youngstown?
;D Just another source of income for the city ;D
In your first post you claim $3 to $5 per shirt, and now you change it to $4 to $6 and also misstate that I pay $12. I pay $8. Well it is only a $2 spread from your newly revised pricing and my actual pricing. You have not actually checked shirt pricing have you? If you would have you would be quoting actual prices and not a price range that you keep changing. I could buy cheap screenprinted shirts from Vistaprint for $6 each but I prefer to patronize local firms.
Maybe he is waiting for the next parking amnesty to settle up?
(http://i42.tinypic.com/audo2q.gif)
I will call Tuesday to get some local quotes for shirts, but I was able to find a Cleveland company and they were about what I figured. Phil buys a lot of shirts and gets a discount for how much he orders.
I added his outstanding violations, he owes $580 in parking, including $150 parking capital recovery fee and $50 for handicapped parking.
Finally someone who is asking for accountability. Phil as with acorn has a history of morphing .if you really want to know kidd , study the ideology of community organizing .
How easily I was able to get you sidetracked into proving shirt prices while ignoring the real issue that I brought up.
Quote from: Rick Rowlands on September 01, 2013, 06:14:36 PM
How easily I was able to get you sidetracked into proving shirt prices while ignoring the real issue that I brought up.
Not exactly sure what the issue you wanted a response to, but it appears that he did, indeed, simply have Youngstown Nation LLC take over everything Youngstown Nation Inc had. Everything appears to be identical with the exception that one was labeled non-profit, the other for-profit.
It really grinds my gears when people abuse non-profit or other resources for personal gain.
That would be an issue then. I have started several non profits over the years and run one now, and I have a fairly good understanding of how NPOs work. Reading through the YN articles of incorporation the purposes clause was very vague, and to obtain tax exempt status the organization has to have a defined charitable purpose. Perhaps the assets of YN was distributed to a non profit organization and Phil purchased the inventory for his new LLC. We don't know. Since this is an issue for you then please make inquiries. Ask the three incorporators/board members what happened to the assets of the non profit, and hopefully they will tell you that they have wrapped up the affairs of the organization in accordance with the law.
It is obvious now that the Newbie to this site has complete disdain for Mr. Kidd and has outright called him a fraud taking advantage of Youngstown for personal gain.
Most here know that I have been outspoken against Mr. Kidd and the community organizing bunch not just recently, but for years. Therefore, let me vett this newcomer.
What do you believe is the mission of Mr. Kidd in defending Youngstown?
Quote from: Youngstownshrimp on September 01, 2013, 08:39:46 PM
It is obvious now that the Newbie to this site has complete disdain for Mr. Kidd and has outright called him a fraud taking advantage of Youngstown for personal gain.
Most here know that I have been outspoken against Mr. Kidd and the community organizing bunch not just recently, but for years. Therefore, let me vett this newcomer.
What do you believe is the mission of Mr. Kidd in defending Youngstown?
You're right, I am a newbie. I grew up in the suburbs and live in the Erie Terminal. I just hear so many people talking so highly of him, but I think I see what a lot of people don't see. I think the mission of Mr. Kidd in defending Youngstown is personal gain, plain and simple. He doesn't really care about this city as much as the general public believes.
It is nice to know there are other people out there who aren't fans of Phil :)
I do think that he cares about Youngstown very much. If Phil is doing what he does for personal gain that would not cause me to think any less of him, as most of the good things that happen in society result from people pursuing profit. We do not see eye to eye on several issues, but I know that he does care about what he does and that is to be respected.
You on the other hand are someone not to be trusted, as you just barge into this forum and instead of making a positive contribution to our little community you immediately begin bashing someone. Hardly a way to make a first impression. Your conduct in that manner is no better than what you accuse Phil Kidd of, but you get to hide behind a screen name so we cannot search YOUR criminal record and broadcast it for all to see. If you are man (or woman) enough to make such accusations then come out in the open and identify yourself. I use my full name here as I stand behind what I say. Will you stand behind what you say?
Rick,
I don't know.....how many people have come forward and gone against the grain for instance and not just drank the koolaid? Obviously, something may need investigation about the Kidd, MVOC, and the Community Bill of rights. Something fishy is going on when Kidd... the community organizing golden boy, morph's again from an MVOC Chieftan, to a nonprofit, and now to a capitalist. Look, he is all over liberal publications, the News Outlet, the MVOC newspaper. The Ohio Organizing Colaborative has come out of the closet and is now endorsing the antifrackers. MVOC's recent newspaper has an article selling the banning of drilling in Youngstown.
I'm impressed that this Newbie is coming out swinging like you and I have when we first decried the Socialist. Let's see where this guy goes, he informs us that he lives in the Erie building, he may be honorable.
Something smells fishy about the community organizers, they have been quiet since the energy companies arrived and now it seems they are about to mobilize to protest.
Quote from: Rick Rowlands on September 01, 2013, 10:43:59 PM
I do think that he cares about Youngstown very much. If Phil is doing what he does for personal gain that would not cause me to think any less of him, as most of the good things that happen in society result from people pursuing profit. We do not see eye to eye on several issues, but I know that he does care about what he does and that is to be respected.
You on the other hand are someone not to be trusted, as you just barge into this forum and instead of making a positive contribution to our little community you immediately begin bashing someone. Hardly a way to make a first impression. Your conduct in that manner is no better than what you accuse Phil Kidd of, but you get to hide behind a screen name so we cannot search YOUR criminal record and broadcast it for all to see. If you are man (or woman) enough to make such accusations then come out in the open and identify yourself. I use my full name here as I stand behind what I say. Will you stand behind what you say?
I perhaps did sound rude in my first post, but I'm just kind of ticked that so many people view him as a saint or something along those lines. I hear his name all the time and thought I'd express my view. I'll get onto discussing other things! ;D
As George sees it:
It is usually the one who has the least cause for complaint who is the first to make a noise.
Here are questions for everyone that bothered me for years:
Why would a native of a Pennsylvania town uproot and promote a City of another state forsaking his own?
Can you trust one who turns his back on his own community especially when both communities need help equally?
I can't speak for others, but I was born in a small town in Pennsylvania, and came here when I was 10 years old, so having lived here for 63 years, I consider Youngstown, for all its faults, and they are both many and profound my home town.
Gov. Kasich was born and grew up in PA. as well. Why would Kasich uproot? And should we trust him?
Different story for most. They left home early, moved around the country before staking roots. Strange when one goes to college, does a military stint then moves 45 minutes away from hometown and discloses their absolute love for this new town leaving their life and family behind.
I don't find Phil Kidd's moving to Y-Town strange. I have many high school friends who grew up in Youngstown and now live down the road in Warren, Akron, and the Cleveland suburbs.
Welcome Newbie TrueDevotion (TD) - I am glad you have brought up your concerns about Phil Kidd to this forum. I have been on this forum for awhile and I do enjoy a good round of discussion and views on the "facts". Please believe me I am very pleasantly "taken aback" to see Youngstownshrip and Rick Rowland express themself concerning Phil. Thank You Gentlemen :-*
I will come right out and say if it were possible I would be The NUMBER ONE FAN of Phil Kidd. I wounder the exact same things that you have about my idol Phil Kidd, :o therefore you can readily see how glad I am that you asked ! ! ! If you think Phill and his compatriots have done something illegal AND you do not care for him then why don't you do "the correct thing" and report him to the authorities??? ??? YOU have that pleasure and right to bring his wrong :laugh: to the proper authorities and the Justice it deserves. A Good Citizen should ALWAYS report crime - I have a sign in my yard that says " Crime - Don't Support It - Report It. I suggest YOU do just that - it IS YOUR DUTY - EXPOSE THE BUM for who he is :laugh: A simple "tip" to the IRS should do it ;D and who knows you just may get a buck or two out of it and some notoriety 8)
What happened to TRUE DEVOTION, did we scare him off?
Quote from: Youngstownshrimp on April 03, 2014, 02:42:55 PM
What happened to TRUE DEVOTION, did we scare him off?
Still here, just not much to talk about I guess. Anything new with Defend Youngstown?
Wow, how can you read this message board and not chime in once in awhile?
As far as Defend, I don't know, kind of eerie, I drive through Phelps and I see him just sitting there behind a laptop, kind of spooky if you ask me. He does seem to have a following with all the Defend YTown merchandise. I have to give it to him though, he is becoming a merchant and jumped into Capitalism, he walked over to the dark side :) .
Unless, we wake up one day and out pours Tshirts and merchandise emblazoned with propaganda denouncing Capitalism. Or the MVOC morps into Defend Youngstown Jackboot Army, attacking the oil and gas industry. Who knows, my honest opinion is that the Days of Occupy Youngstown and Defend Youngstown have past Phil by, Youngstown does not need defending anymore, Capitalism, our birthright has returned to save us all, even bigger than the Steel industry. It is called ENERGY.....and it is making us Global again! :)
Quote from: TrueDevotion on April 03, 2014, 04:52:40 PM
Still here, just not much to talk about I guess. Anything new with Defend Youngstown?
I honestly think he's fading out of the public spotlight. I drive down Phelps too occasionally and never see anyone in there. I asked a downtown businessman I am friends with who occasionally talks about Defend Youngstown/Youngstown Nation/Phil "What exactly does Phil do that makes him so great?" and the response I got was "He attends many meetings" and "keeps the community informed". Uhh.... alright.
L.O.L.
The folks on here attend meetings, and Jay keeps us informed ( thanks Jay ! ) about all KINDS
of stuff around town.
I learn just as much on this board as I do on the local news as far as the issues and happenings back
home in Youngstown.
I would post more about the industrial archeology work that I do but attaching photos is a real pain, especially since flickr changed the way they do things. Can't imbed photos anymore.
Phil Kidd did attend YSU a few years back and it was at that time that he developed a fondness for Yo.
BTW, I'm 54, and moved from Florida to Youngstown 9 yrs ago. Have I turned my back on Florida? Nope.
But like TT, I consider Youngstown my adopted hometown.
O/T - I wish this board had the thumbs up/down feature.
Rick, I might be able to help you out, since I have my own Internet domain, ie:
allthingsyoungstown.net
Since the web server is located right in my family room, I have total control
over it and still have lots of space on the server for more content. Let me know
if you'd be interested in sending photos directly, I can create a private FTP login
for you.
Send me a private message if you are interested....
I saw him bartending, so I will take a shot and say that things must be rough and business is not doing well anymore.
Phil is doing just fine. YN is doing fine. He was asked to help out with bartending once in a while, so he took them up on it.
No secrets. ;)
I read above where someone said that every time they drive by YN it's empty and he's sitting behind his desk alone.
That's odd. Every time I go to YN it's pretty darn busy. So the commenter above must be driving by during the hours YN is closed.
He's usually there during that time as well, doing business, or putting out his newsletters, etc.
I don't understand the Phil Kidd haters. Especially TD. You've lived here - how long?
Why don't you attempt to get to know the guy? You might find that you actually LIKE him, and respect what he's doing.
WHO CARES WHAT PHIL KIDD DOES WITH HIS TIME. IT IS NONE 0F MY BUSINESS. :o
I applaud any honest effort made by ANYONE that helps to make a difference for the better in Youngstown. He as the right to make a living just like anyone else, I could care less what he does besides his store, as far as working in a bar, etc.
Not relevent.
Quote from: iwasthere on June 26, 2014, 04:43:30 PM
WHO CARES WHAT PHIL KIDD DOES WITH HIS TIME. IT IS NONE 0F MY BUSINESS. :o
Quote from: AllanY2525 on June 27, 2014, 02:41:25 AMI applaud any honest effort made by ANYONE that helps to make a difference for the better in Youngstown. He as the right to make a living just like anyone else, I could care less what he does besides his store, as far as working in a bar, etc.
Not relevent.
Exactly.