Mahoning Valley Forum

Youngstown & The Mahoning Valley => Downtown Youngstown [Subforums] => Topic started by: jay on August 13, 2013, 09:20:34 PM

Title: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: jay on August 13, 2013, 09:20:34 PM
I recently visited the Lemon Grove CafĂ©.  The place has really changed.  I liked it better at the old location.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Billy Mumphrey on August 14, 2013, 02:37:47 AM
The old location had a feel to it. The new location with the addition of Guy's BBQ makes the place feel like it doesn't know what direction it wants to go.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: jay on August 20, 2013, 03:32:36 PM
Someone told me today that the name is being changed to Knox.   It may become more of a sports bar.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: iwasthere on August 20, 2013, 04:14:27 PM
Quote from: jay on August 20, 2013, 03:32:36 PM
Someone told me today that the name is being changed to Knox.   It may become more of a sports bar.
i wish the owners well.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: northside lurker on August 20, 2013, 06:51:54 PM
Quote from: jay on August 20, 2013, 03:32:36 PM
Someone told me today that the name is being changed to Knox.   It may become more of a sports bar.

I don't know, but I had the impression that the building was originally named the Knox Building.  Maybe, under the EIFS, there is a stone with the name Knox carved into it?
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Towntalk on August 21, 2013, 06:26:53 AM
 Big article about the Lemon Grove in today's Vindicator.


The Lemon Grove on its third name, business model http://www.vindy.com/news/2013/aug/21/downtown-bar-strives-to-make-a-name-for-/ (http://www.vindy.com/news/2013/aug/21/downtown-bar-strives-to-make-a-name-for-/)  
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Towntalk on August 21, 2013, 06:43:09 AM
Apparently the Lemon Grove, no matter what name it goes by should just look to move to a new location outside the downtown area.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Billy Mumphrey on August 21, 2013, 09:20:10 AM
The owner may say he is not going out of business but he reminds me of a boxer who has already been knocked down 3 times
in a fight. Sooner or later you eventually get knocked out.
Maybe he should write to Spike TV and get on the "Bar Rescue" program.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: jay on August 21, 2013, 09:43:35 AM
The Lemon Grove was cool  8) when the arts crowd was there.

With the arrival of Guys, the crowd changed (and shrunk).


Where do the artist hang out now?
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Billy Mumphrey on August 21, 2013, 10:32:16 AM
Greyland?
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Mary_Krupa on August 21, 2013, 05:13:06 PM
There is no mystery why it hasn't succeeded as a restaurant. Very poor service. End of discussion.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Billy Mumphrey on August 21, 2013, 07:15:11 PM
Yes, very poor service. So-So food somewhat overpriced. Drinks were way overpriced after moving into the new location. On 2 occasions I had the bar help "round up" drink prices. I bought a drink for $4.75 and gave them a twenty. I got 15 dollars back in change. They expanded too big too soon.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Mary_Krupa on August 21, 2013, 08:42:17 PM
OMG, I can't believe they did that!  That's just wrong.

Don't get me wrong. I love the whole idea of the Lemon Grove. A very nice casual place to have breakfast, lunch or dinner, to see who's walking by, and to relax after attending various meetings or having a meeting there.  We were so fortunate to get a genuine coffee shop style establishment in Youngstown. It makes me unhappy that it couldn't pull itself together.  Probably nothing that good management couldn't fix.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Billy Mumphrey on August 21, 2013, 09:05:24 PM
I think I heard "Nearer my God to thee" playing on the jukebox tonight when I walked by.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Billy Mumphrey on August 23, 2013, 07:56:00 AM
If the Lemon Grove/Knox goes under, wouldn't that location make for a nice store like Dollar General in downtown? With more folks living
and working there now, would a store of this type be welcomed so downtown folks wouldn't have to drive out of downtown to stores north or south to
get simple household supplies?
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Mary_Krupa on August 23, 2013, 08:48:18 PM
Sure wish a Woolworth's would go in there. Too bad they aren't around. They were so much more interesting than the $ stores.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Billy Mumphrey on August 24, 2013, 07:56:50 AM
Would not such a store like Woolworth's also be good for the students living on campus with no cars?
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Rick Rowlands on August 25, 2013, 12:40:53 PM
You all need to get with the times.  Woolworths went out of business in 1997.  The modern equivalent would be something akin to a Walgreens.  But ultimately it would be a heck of a hike from the YSU dorms to a store in the downtown, which is probably why the CVS located up next to Stambaugh Auditorium.

You have to wonder why there are not more retail establishments around campus with the number of potential customers available.  Perhaps starting a business catering to perpetually broke college students isn't going to be much of a money maker. Also, YSU still is largely a commuter college.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Mary_Krupa on August 25, 2013, 03:28:30 PM
I think we all know that Woolworth's is out of business. I was referring to the special atmosphere of a Woolworth's. The $ stores have no charm.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Billy Mumphrey on August 26, 2013, 06:23:06 AM
Very well said, Mary. Funny, students don't mind the hike from the YSU dorms to the bars downtown. Many other college towns have established storefronts other than bars to attract college students. Athens, Oxford, and Kent are a few to come to mind. Don't believe everything you hear regarding broke college students, mostly from football players. Most college students have a nice chunk of spendable income.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: kenneyjoe330 on August 26, 2013, 08:37:17 PM
Charm or not downtown sure could use a 'dollar store' - to get Woolworth Charm would be way way too expensive today  :laugh:

I never did care for the Lemon Grove - as stated before very poor service, over priced and the food was not that good.  That was where some of the people went so I just went along with the group.  May be the third time will be a "charm"  :laugh:  I wish him well.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Billy Mumphrey on August 26, 2013, 09:15:40 PM
I agree Kenny. The little deli market next to the Grove seems to have met a need for downtown. I also believe some type of "dollar store" could work on W. Federal. I know I would like to be able to run in and grab some items on foot instead of having to make an extra stop on the way home in my car if I worked downtown. The same could be said for the new apartment dwellers downtown. I am sure the new YSU students who are moving into the Erie Building would like to be able to walk around the block for everyday items and goods.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Towntalk on August 26, 2013, 09:20:30 PM
Family Dollar would make a good fit because they have a grocery department as with the Family Dollar in the Union Square Plaza.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: AllanY2525 on August 27, 2013, 12:51:54 AM
I think a small General Store could work downtown.  A smart owner/manager would probably want to do
some surveying of the student body at YSU and determine what items students need and purchase the
most, as well as merchandise that is popular with downtown residents.

Maybe add a consignment section for buying and selling good, used items such as school books and computing
devices, ie: tablet and notebook pc's, maybe a geek-squad-like outfit, etc (?)
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Billy Mumphrey on August 27, 2013, 05:23:18 AM
A very good idea Allan!
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Towntalk on August 27, 2013, 06:54:14 AM
Is there any group that is seriously promoting downtown Youngstown as a location for stores? The arts folks take credit for all the restaurants there, so why isn't there a group that seeks to bring retail stores downtown?
Don't these downtown business men realize that by having stores downtown that everyone would benefit from increased traffic?
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Billy Mumphrey on August 27, 2013, 08:19:47 AM
I know a few small non-restaurant business people downtown who have been talking to folks in city hall about this same idea.
I've been told it is falling on deaf ears.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Rick Rowlands on August 27, 2013, 08:33:23 AM
What does city hall have to do with it?  If its permitted by zoning then go lease a storefront, get the permits and build away!
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Towntalk on August 27, 2013, 08:55:17 AM
Promote it.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Towntalk on August 27, 2013, 01:03:43 PM
Found this photo showing the Woolworth store in the 1950's.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Towntalk on August 27, 2013, 01:07:36 PM
Closeup
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Lyndz on August 27, 2013, 01:42:15 PM
this article is old but i think it shows a nationwide trend with departments stores in Downtowns.... we would all love to see them, but the article brings up a point about parking, people want to park infront of the store and shop. In downtown Youngstown people want to park to grab a drink or a meal. The more people who live downtown the more appealing it will be to the department store. http://www.jsonline.com/business/downtown-boston-store-bucks-nationwide-trend-f73el2t-135840243.html (http://www.jsonline.com/business/downtown-boston-store-bucks-nationwide-trend-f73el2t-135840243.html)
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Towntalk on August 27, 2013, 03:09:07 PM
No question about the fact that we will never see a full service department store downtown, but I would like to point out that in Sharon The Winner is successful.

If we were able to get a Family Dollar store downtown like the one in the Union Square Plaza it would be a start. The Union Square Family Dollar not only has the usual discount items,but it also has a grocery department that takes up a third of the store, and it this were coupled with a Big Lots, other small retailers might also come.

By locating a Family dollar at one end of West Federal Street and a Big Lots at the other end of West Federal Street, they could serve as anchors, and with the proper promotion , it might just work..

Since most folks who shop at the two stores don't buy large purchases, there should be no traffic problem.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: kenneyjoe330 on August 27, 2013, 05:33:31 PM
I think every day items - small office supplies, kitchen stuff, pop, beer, chips, a box of cereal, milk, a can of soup or other canned foods, paper products like napkins and plates, toilet articles like deodorant, soap, shampoo, makeup stuff - a small amount of clothing like socks, T-shirts, flip-flops - greeting cards - You would not have to do a survey if you asked "Did you find everything  you wanted ?" when shoppers left without buying or when they purchase something.  Lets say someone comes in for some pens - I bet they leave with at least one other item even if it is gum or chips or a candy bar.  I wish I had some $$$$$ cause I sure could talk myself into a Dollar Store franchise near the square.  :laugh:

City hall has EVERYTHING to do with IT.  They should PROMOTE legitimate and needed businesses downtown - IT IS THERE J-O-B.
Not just bars and restaurants or even apartments.  In order to be prosperous you MUST show people and encourage business growth and development.  THEY NEED to approach "Dollar General" and make a win win deal.  After all the city gets 2 and 3/4% for every Dollar a person earns, they can offer abatement and grants and loans Oh My abatemen and grants and loans Oh My  :laugh:
I think that is what City Hall has to do with IT (development - moving forward toward commercial improvement, promoting ITSELF, JOB CREATION ------ CITY HALL needs to do what they did with the old V & R Steel (? is that what it was - I can't recall the name NOW  :( ) But of course in a smaller way - but none the less take SOME action - UGH thanks for listening  :-*
that
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Towntalk on August 27, 2013, 06:14:09 PM
 :-* :-* :-*  FAMILY DOLLAR  :-* :-* :-*
:-* :-* :-*  SAVE-A-LOT  :-* :-* :-*
:-* :-* :-*  DOLLAR GENERAL  :-* :-* :-*
:-* :-* :-*  BIG LOTS  :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Billy Mumphrey on August 27, 2013, 06:16:27 PM
KennyJoe...I agreed with you! I have 50 cents to my name, can I invest with you? The city should get involved with downtown development other than
bars and restaurants. If there is now a push to open up downtown to apartment dwellers then the availability of everyday goods should be part of the plan.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Rick Rowlands on August 27, 2013, 07:11:40 PM
The Winner is successful in part because of that huge parking lot at Reyers across the street.  I can go to downtown Sharon, park for free and walk in the front door of the Winner without any hassle.  Parking is a huge issue and actually plays a big part in where I go to.  That was one of the reasons that I liked Cafe Cimmentos.  Parking was always better on the east end. 
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Towntalk on August 27, 2013, 07:59:58 PM
The city has sold its soul to the company that runs all or most of the downtown parking lots so unless one or two of the stores I listed can break the mold and have free customer parking no store will consider opening in downtown Youngstown, and in time after folks have become bored with what eateries are there, downtown Youngstown will become a ghost town once again.  :'(
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: jay on August 27, 2013, 08:13:48 PM
With the downsizing of the U.S. Post Office Building, maybe that location would be a good place to start with some type of store.  The north and south sides of the building also have plenty of parking spaces.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Rick Rowlands on August 27, 2013, 11:18:13 PM
Since the city is intent on demolishing the Tod plant that land would make a good place for some free parking.  But of course it will be turned over to USA Parking instead!
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Youngstownshrimp on August 28, 2013, 05:47:32 AM
Back to the topic, Doesn't the Occupier, MVOC, Defend movement seem like ancient history? 
We recently hired a liberal, yes we did and she was right up front in the movements listed above.  Very bright girl and sad to see how she is depressed and confused for believing the hipsters and Lemon grove crowd.  Like Irish Bob, they both fought hard only to see only free enterprise works.
Title: Re: Lemon Grove 2013
Post by: Mary_Krupa on August 29, 2013, 09:24:01 PM
huh?