QuoteEven though we have the second highest income tax in the state that is still not enough to take the city out of the red, and to raise it any higher would only drive more working families out of the city.
It's been said that retirees in Youngstown make up a substantial part of our population and yet they do not pay any income taxes. Maybe a way could be found so that all residents of the city contribute to the city's revenue stream.
That is bloody cheek of you Jay.
For 50 years I worked my fingers to the bone ... payed my share of bloody taxes and so have all the other local retirees in Youngstown many of which now have to rely solely on their Social Security checks because when the mills and other companies went belly up they lost their pensions ... Do you have any idea what the average Social Security check amounts to per month? DO YOU EVEN CARE? >:(
And remember this and remember it well ... many of those elderly folks still own their homes and pay property tax some of which pays for schools ... why the bloody **** should the elderly be forced to pay school taxes so that other families children can get an education? These same elderly folks don't ask for a free ride, unlike the folks that Shrimp and Rick rightfully refer to.
And how are you going to get money from welfare families?
How twisted that the liberal dependent class would try to pull retirees, disabled and military heroes into their camp of "give me more free stuff too!" Or redistribute the pittance that the retirees still have. Yes, paying property taxes are more than their fair share of the subsidy to the takers. I for one despite what mudslingers say pay thousands of dollars more that the majority, and I have and still struggle to give. And if any hipsters want proof , bring it on, tit for tat.
QuoteIt's been said that retirees in Youngstown make up a substantial part of our population and yet they do not pay any income taxes.
Some retirees living in the city of Youngstown are in pretty good shape. I often hear them talk about their numerous trips to Mountaineer and other gambling resorts. Some even vacation in Florida every winter.
Youngstown retirees still expect and get city services such as police, fire, snow removal. street repair and more.
Oh the sheer horror of it all ... imagine that senior citizens who worked their whole life supporting others should get some enjoyment out of life. That should not ever be allowed in Jay's world. The money that he would leach out of them would go to pay the bills that the welfare folks can't pay, and yet it is this very group that uses up a huge percentage of city funds.
How far would you go Jay ... send the tax collector out to grab the last cent that granny has, and if she can't come up with the green, seize her walker, or house.
I don't particularly like using the term user class in reference to welfare folks that grab at every program that government can devise for folks that don't want to work, but they are the very folks that our limited resources are being spent on because they don't pay any kind of taxes except perhaps sales tax when they buy a taxable item on your dime.
Again Jay ... BLOODY CHEEK OF YOU ...
Seniors who can afford to go to Florida in the winter also own homes, that have high property tax rates that they pay ... those taxes go to all the services that you listed and then some. And they are not leaching of government unless perhaps you think Social Security is leaching.
Would you also have the city tax as income their Social Security checks and pensions as earned income? I bet you would.
Quoteand yet it is this very group that uses up a huge percewntage ofd city funds.
Except for police, maybe, what other city services do the "user class" monopolize?
My heavens isn't that enough? Look at the city's crime rate. Tell me that retirees use the police as much as the user class does. Then there is the MHA that keeps a roof over their heads. Only a small number of Youngstown's seniors rely on MHA.
Tell you what ... as a senior citizen myself ... lets all boycott every event in the city ... no more volunteering ... no more buying in the city, ... no more supporting local causes. Lets take all our money out of Youngstown and spend it in Liberty and Boardman and to **** with Youngstown.
Oh and by the way, the city can not under federal law treat Social Security checks as earned income and tax it.
YMHA is a county entity, and isn't funded through city income taxes.
It seems to me that the point of this thread was to discuss ways to reduce the income tax. If you're so offended by Jay's idea, can you come up with some other way to ensure "all residents of the city contribute to the city's revenue stream?"
You're wrong my friend ... Jay wants seniors to pay taxes ... the only way that can happen is if the city can tax all seniors income and for a large percentage of them that is Social Security and they can't do that.
Senios already pay taxes ... property taxes ... their water bills go to pay for trash pickup. And those that do have part time jobs pay city income tax
And yes there is a way for all city residents including seniors to pay their fare share and that is an across the board sales tax on every item they buy including food and clothing that way the welfare folks would have to pay taxes as well as the rest of us.
IF the folks that are so opposed to the city taking advantage of the oil boom would buzz off, the city could be drawing in more cash, and then it could look at reducing city income tax.
Read Jays statements westsider.
It's been said that retirees in Youngstown make up a substantial part of our population and yet they do not pay any income taxes. Maybe a way could be found so that all residents of the city contribute to the city's revenue stream.
[/color]Some retirees living in the city of Youngstown are in pretty good shape. I often hear them talk about their numerous trips to Mountaineer and other gambling resorts. Some even vacation in Florida every winter.
[/color]Youngstown retirees still expect and get city services such as police, fire, snow removal. street repair and more.
Welcome to the redistribution society as I predicted here long ago...it has come to pass.
Towntalk, the only solution is for the mass work enforcement of all able bodied, the reintroduction of orphanages, population control of the dependent class, and the withdrawal of voting rights of all unproductive voters who sell their vote for subsidy. Tell me I am wrong on this one.
Only when the 57% in Youngstown are required to produce will this class warfare cease.
And I am not talking about the retirees who earned their rertirement, only those who continue to suck from the taxpayers.
:) Couldn't agree with you more my friend. Its sad that some folks seem to think that the answer is ... sock it to those seniors that worked all their productive life ... saved their money for their post working years ... and god forbid that they enjoy their twilight years while welfare folks have things handed to them and not pay penny one in income taxes to the city.
Some retirees living in the city of Youngstown are in pretty good shape. I often hear them talk about their numerous trips to Mountaineer and other gambling resorts. Some even vacation in Florida every winter.
Would some folks just as soon the money ... their money earned and saved ... were handed over to the city.
Who's the leach ... the folks that worked for a living ... bought and paid for a nice home ... paid their taxes ... put money aside to help their children through college ... put money aside for their retirement years ... supported charities ... or the welfare people?
Like you, I'm not talking about those with health issues that keep them from working through no fault of their own, but when I see welfare driving good cars, and having the latest electronic gadgets I get hot under the collar.
The city is in deep financial trouble because our city council waste it, and that's not the fault of the taxpayers. When the council treats its treasury as an endless well, we'll never get out of debt, and more income tax won't help ... it will only encourage them to waste more.
The best thing that could happen at this point is for Youngstown to go into bankruptcy to wake up Council and force them to show more responsable care of the city's money.
One of the recommendations of the consultant is to reduce the fire department staff by 20 full-time workers. This might equate to closing some neighborhood fire stations.
Although the city needs more money, the fact remains that we need more taxpayers and not higher taxes.
Then TELL US how you are going to tax 75 year old ladies whose only income is Social Security.
You've been preaching taxing Youngstown retirees still expect and get city services such as police, fire, snow removal. street repair and more. Now tell us just what EXACTLY your plan would be IN DETAIL!
You've been bouncing around the issue, now [/color]BE SPECIFIC!
FULL DISCLOSURE CORRECTION
For the sake of full disclosure I will correct myself on one point...apparently STATES can tax Social Security Benefits and 14 STATES do, while 36 DO NOT.
Jay,
Youngstown with a population of 65000 gets a taxpayers budget of $150 Million a year.
Boardman with a population of 50000 gets a taxpayers budget of $20 Million a year.
Could you please stop with this unresearched cry for more taxes? I do not know why some here go on this outcry about MO MONEY. I hope you now see that the problem isn't more subsidy but fiscal responsibility. Your beef should be with your leaders who can't handle money, what do you think some here have been trying to educate us on? You if anyone, has read all the post for years screaming about all the pork Youngstown and the nonprofits have been sucking up paying themselves and their cronies high salaries. But you know what, maybe you are finally getting it that the time has come as we warned you about ...the bankruptcy of Youngstown. There ain't any mo money from the taxpayers to give...nada.
AND THE CHOIR SAID " AMEN BROTHER RON AMEN."
I still feel this thread would be more productive if it were treated as a brainstorming exercise, and less of an attack on a poster who threw an idea out there.
Personally, I think the city should use the recent report to streamline city hall, and then annex all the surrounding areas it legally can.
ws why annex the subs when they are paying the bills for the city residents through the city payroll inc tx. the report states 80 percent of the inc tx are from the sub res who work in the city. as ytown shrimp and others had said in previous posts and other blogs that the city leades failed to do was to enforce ALL city codes that effected the city to run an effecient ranned government.
westsider ... I am NOT attacking Jay personally ... just the idea ... I applaud Jay for all his efforts and maby you could take a page out of his book. If I were younger and in better health I certainly would because Jay is a perfect example of GOOD CITIZENSHIP.
I may be a little rough around the edges when it comes to debates, but that comes from the lessions I learned in high school debate club from one of the best teachers in high school ... Jess Diller. He produced CHAMPIONS ... not losers.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK JAY but don't expect 100% agreement with all your ideas 100% of the time.
NOT TO BE ARGUMENTIVE
The idea of annexing the suburbs goes as far back as the Ungaro administration with no results other than to get Boardman and Austintown angry at us. It would never fly because the voters in the suburbs would, with a collective voice vote it down. Remember the fuss that was made when Youngstown wanted to annex a chunk of Austintown for the fireworks company and more recently when the city wanted to annex land for V&M Star Steel?
IN HISTORY
When the city wanted to annex Coitsville the voters there said no. When Youngstown wanted to annex East Youngstown, the voters again said no.
Don't have time to reply to posts, but I did want to ask if there is a link to the report. I glanced at the Vindy article, but didn't see a link.
Regarding the budgets of Youngstown and Boardman Township
Many services used by the residents of Boardman do not show up on the books of Boardman Township.
A Few Examples
The City of Youngstown supplies drinking water to a large portion of Boardman Township. Because Boardman doesn't own the water system, the transactions for the sale of water (and the expenses) appear on the City of Youngstown's books. Water is also supplied to Austintown. I'm sure this amounts to millions and millions of dollars each year.
The same applies to sewage disposal. Some sewage goes to Youngstown (and appears financially on their books) while other sewage goes to the Boardman Sewage Plant which is operated by Mahoning County. This is a multi-million dollar operation.
In Boardman, each resident contracts directly with a private trash collection service. In Youngstown, all residential trash service is contracted and billed through the city. Here again, Youngstown's trash service appears on Youngstown's books. Residential trash service in Boardman never appears on Boardman's books. Trash service is probably another multi-million dollar ledger item for Youngstown.
The court in Boardman is a function of Mahoning County. Its operating costs are not in Boardman's budget. The municipal courts in Youngstown are items included in Youngstown's budget.
Health department services for Boardman (food service inspection, septic systems, adult and child health service, and more) are provided by Mahoning County. These items again do not show up in Boardman's budget. Youngstown has its own health department and carries the health department expenses on the city's books.
Westsider, never happen. The taxpayers of the suburbs would revolt if and leave if the recepient class annexes the township. They will never be a part of a subsidized civilization.
Jay, you're losing me here. So you are saying there is even more money the City is sucking down and squandering from these public businesses.
Quote from: Youngstownshrimp on September 24, 2012, 09:03:22 PM
Westsider, never happen. The taxpayers of the suburbs would revolt if and leave if the recepient class annexes the township. They will never be a part of a subsidized civilization.
Jay, you're losing me here. So you are saying there is even more money the City is sucking down and squandering from these public businesses.
No. I think what Jay is saying is that the City is obligated to provide a SIGNIFICANTLY larger amount of services then Boardman township. Besides the ones Jay mentioned they also maintain the areas only Bomb Squad, they have more miles of road ways to maintain. The townships do not maintain any state routes. The City maintains all state routes even the highways, sans I680. That includes paving, traffic control, snow removal, patching, and mowing. They also operate a public works department including building inspection and engineering. Using population to make a comparison is flawed and i would expect more from a study that they paid a quarter of a million dollars for. Regardless of the population roads, sewers waterlines remain and must be maintained. The fire department has more area to cover and vacant houses must still be dealt with during fires. People think they have all of the answers without understanding the questions. I hope this clears things up. Oh and Ron if you want to help out how about paying the back taxes you owe. The City could use the money.
Quote me if I'm wrong but doesn't the state maintain I-680. I don't know who maintains the older state routes such as 422 etc but perhaps someone would be able to enlighten us.
For a minute there I thought nameless Stewie was exuding some type of intelligence ; then I kept reading and thought yeah, City trucks and police running security and maintenance on 680. I remember this Youngstown underachiever. Yes Stewie I continue to pay more taxes than you and the 99%, and I wonder why I do it, supporting the takers of society.
Looks like Stewie ran away again with his tail between his legs.
For a minute I thought the brains didn't all drain away from Youngstown, then I pondered Stewie's outburst here and just shook my head in defeat that I am proven right again, are there any innovators and intellectuals like Rick left in the Valley? :'(
there should be a flat tax for everyone with the same deductions for everyone thus ending this divide and conquer in our society. we, the usa citizens can work on the real problems that effect our grt country.
iwasthere, you just had a great thought thjat I agree with. I am sure it was just a momentary lapse.
The city is supposed to maintain the non interstate state routes in the city. "Supposed". In reality, there is no maintenance being performed. Only little used streets such as Arrow, Avon and Crescent Streets are being repaved. Someone in the city is looking at the street traffic statistics and paving the streets with the lowest numbers.
Would this include those little old ladies and gents in Hospis and Nursing Homes? And what about the lifers in prison? All these folks consume large chunks of tax dollars and give nothing back. And what about the mentally challenged, or those with MS, MD, or Cerebral Palsy? Again, these folks use up tax dollars and give little if anything back. Finally what about the blind, the amputees, or the men and women that came back from the war with injuries so severe that they can't hold down a job?
rr what do you mean by momentary laspe? is that like a senior moment? tt i do no understd where your are going with your message, can you elborate?
Flat tax on everybody (I hope that wouldn't include children) as you proposed earlier.
Quote from: Towntalk on October 01, 2012, 10:22:42 AM
Flat tax on everybody (I hope that wouldn't include children) as you proposed earlier.
only on children whose lemonade stands make over sixty dollars a wk.
:)
What about those stay at home moms who are nothing more than lay abouts gorging themselves with bon bons and playing canasta with other lay about moms while sipping on wine while their rug rats run the streets at all hours? Should they be taxed the flat tax?
if you are talking about wfm i would enforce the wf worklaws and have the police dept enforce the curvew law with a heavy hand.