http://www.vindy.com/news/2012/jun/21/council-approves-legislation/ (http://www.vindy.com/news/2012/jun/21/council-approves-legislation/)
"Give $70,000 to the law firm of Green Haines Sgambati Co., which is consolidating its offices at Westchester Square in Austintown and the former PNC Bank Building in downtown Youngstown to City Centre One at 100 E. Federal St. downtown.
The money would pay most of the $115,000 cost the firm says is needed for the consolidation and relocation."
The city just recently said that they won't be able to pave as many streets this summer due to rising prices, but they still have so much extra cash laying around that they can engage in crony capitalism and give it away to a private concern?
"The city is having 58 streets, largely in residential areas, paved at a cost of $1,305,219. The streets are equivalent to 23 lane miles, said Charles Shasho, deputy director of the city's public- works department. A lane mile is one mile long and 12 feet wide. In comparison, the city spent $1,425,842 in 2011 to pave 71 streets, equivalent to 26 lane miles, and $1,454,408 in 2010 to pave 80 streets; equivalent to 29.2 lane miles."
So if that 70K were directed to the street paving, which is a PUBLIC GOOD, they would only be short about $79,000 short of last year's paving budget. Then if another one of these cozy "give public money to for profit concerns" deals were rescinded we could make up that remaining shortfall.
Its not a question of council not having the money to run the city, they just want to spend it on things outside of what we elected them to do.
I don't agree with what the city is doing, either. Those funds should be used to lure companies from elsewhere, (which, sadly, is how business development works everywhere, these days; Kasich was ready to give Sears $400 million to relocate to Ohio, for example) or to those that really could use the help.
I doubt they could use that money for paving more streets, though. That's a different department.
Is cannibalizing our own suburbs for jobs now a goal of the City of Youngstown? On one hand they talk regionalization, then on the other hand try to harm other communities within the region.
Quote from: Rick Rowlands on June 21, 2012, 10:53:16 AM
Is cannibalizing our own suburbs for jobs now a goal of the City of Youngstown? On one hand they talk regionalization, then on the other hand try to harm other communities within the region.
I don't think so... I was just expressing my own opinion, and didn't say anything about neighboring suburbs, anyway.
You didn't but the law firm is moving offices from Austintown to downtown. So basically Youngstown council is spending 70K to harm Austintown.
These attorneys could well afford to pay their own way. It sounds like another example of corporate welfare to me.
How many people work in the Austintown office?
Could it be called a "bribe" on the part of the city?
Who made the decision to make the move in the first place?
Another point of view, via Phil Kidd: "The city is spending $70K for 'relocation and site improvement' fees for a downtown law firm that is threatening to leave for Austintown but will stay and bring their Austintown office to Youngstown if those conditions are met."
Were I the Mayor, I'd tell Mr. Haines ... "Don't let the door hit you and your staff in the backsides as you exit the city bub."
QuoteAnother point of view, via Phil Kidd: "The city is spending $70K for 'relocation and site improvement' fees for a downtown law firm that is threatening to leave for Austintown but will stay and bring their Austintown office to Youngstown if those conditions are met."
Blackmail??
As I understand it, it's fairly common these days for businesses to threaten to leave an area, with the expectation that the city is so desperate to keep them, the city will put together an incentive package to stay.
westsider, we're talking about a gaggle of mouthpieces, and mouthpieces are a dime a dozen. How many time in the course of a lifetime do you need the services of a mouthpiece? Now if it were a store, or some other business that we use frequently, that's one thing, but a stuff shirt mouthpiece is quite another.
QuoteAs I understand it, it's fairly common these days for businesses to threaten to leave an area, with the expectation that the city is so desperate to keep them, the city will put together an incentive package to stay.
Would the administration also be willing to offer incentives for people to stay in the city?
We have two Forum members who would probably also like moving expenses for relocating from the south side and west side to the north side.
This was ordinance number 7 on last night's city council agenda.
This ordinance was approved by all seven councilmen.
When will it all end, when will we take back our City hall?
ytown residents will take back the city hall when they themselves take back the power that they gave to the city leaders.
Terry,
I like that, it seems there is momentum in the country for people to take back government from all politicians.
Quote from: jay on June 21, 2012, 08:25:37 PM
Would the administration also be willing to offer incentives for people to stay in the city?
We have two Forum members who would probably also like moving expenses for relocating from the south side and west side to the north side.
I'll take those incentives, please Mr. Mayor?!?!?
I do not agree with this deal in any way shape or form.
In fact I will go a step further and say that I do not like all the tax breaks, water breaks, etc that the city is giving these developers, etc.
If they want to develop in Youngstown, fine, DO it. But do it because YOU want to, not because you get a break at our expense.
That money go pay for a lot of street repaving,. and neighborhood improvements/development.
Quote from: Youngstownshrimp on June 22, 2012, 07:48:43 AM
Terry,
I like that, it seems there is momentum in the country for people to take back government from all politicians.
Ubetcha. I'd like to fire the whole of Washington DC and start the hell all over again.
I've heard that the Youngstown office of this law firm is moving One Block.
and you're surprised? ::)
City Centre One at 100 E. Federal St. downtown.
I think the reason for doing this is to generate additional income taxes for the city. With a 2 1/2% income tax, for the city to make back that 70K "investment" would require an additional $2.8 million in payroll to be added!
Some people simply aren't satisfied with anything the city does, especially the old crone that wants the Police Chief an elected politician because she has a gripe against him. Things in the city are far from perfect, that's a given, but please tell us of any Ohio city that is perfect.
Now admittedly I'm not happy about the mouthpieces being given 70k to stay in the city, but I do not see any of the so called activists challenging that grant in the proper venue, and mahoningvalley.info as good as it is, is not the proper venue I have in mind.
A temporary restraining order against the city is the proper action in Common Pleas Court.
Ranting and raving here will accomplish nothing but allow folks to vent their spleens.
I sure was against the city paying the 70K untill I thought about the return on it - the city income tax is 2 and 3/4 is it not? I wounder how long it will take for the city to recoupe that 70K. They park somewhere as well as their clients. Both would have the choice to eat downtown and may places to drink after doing 'legal things' :laugh: . Someone may even purchase something from Silver's :) or Touch The Moon Candy Saloon :-* There are a few things to consider here about this 70K and what the city"s returne on it would be and how may years (?) it would take before the return takes place ? Just something to consider. I would think a Law Practice would generate a few bucks in to city coffers.
I wish someone would have tracked all of the incentives that the city has given in recent years. That VXI place has received many of them. For just one example, the city pays about $60,000 per year to bus the employees from the Convocation Center parking lot to 20 Federal Place.
I drove down South Avenue today. It seems that there are more vacant and boarded up businesses than buildings that are occupied. The same thing is happening to Mahoning Avenue on the west side.
One of the reasons for businesses leaving the city is the high income tax.
It's 2.75 %, the highest in the state.
2.75 - that's ridiculous.
The City has been unable to govern itself much less its citizens for several decades now.
And we sit back and just watch the decay morally ,economically and physically..........then we blog here.
Many of us are trying to do something about it.
Quote me if I'm wrong but some folks, without doing any homework on their own will hop on the bandwagon of any Tom, Dick, Harry or Maggy that comes down the pike, and even when it is pointed out that their position is the wrong one will not admit it. "If it's on the Louie Free Show, or WASN, it's gotta be right" according to them.
Quote from: Towntalk on June 24, 2012, 09:59:32 PMQuote me if I'm wrong but some folks, without doing any homework on their own will hop on the bandwagon of any Tom, Dick, Harry or Maggy that comes down the pike, and even when it is pointed out that their position is the wrong one will not admit it. "If it's on the Louie Free Show, or WASN, it's gotta be right" according to them.
hmmm I dunno if you're wrong or not. I don't listen to the Louie show.
But now you've got me curious, so I may have to tune in one day. ;)
With the 2.75 % income tax, businesses and individuals move out of the city to avoid paying the tax.
Those remaining are the unemployed and the elderly who do not have an income to tax.
Before retiring a second time I did show prep for Youngstown's most popular talk show host churning out 13 to 15 pages of material 7 days a week so I'm not completely unfamiliar with what talk hosts want.
The talkers I supplied were demanding, and they didn't just present one side of an issue as some local talkers on the smaller stations do today.
Personally, I do not listen to Free or WASN, but still use the methods that I used in show prep to get to the heart of issues, but then I have resources that most folks don't have ... a web site that is totally dedecated to news ... local, national and international which is linked to by a number of radio stations that do talk shows.
Here's the link to my web site:
http://reporters.notebook.tripod.com/ (http://reporters.notebook.tripod.com/)
I must say, after several years of knock down, drag out debates; what are left is people here beginning to realize the actors and institutions who have grandstanded, that they and their ilk are not the answer to Youngstown. Several of the so called self appointed leaders and nonprofits have ran from this forum when unsuccessful in honest debate. Inspite of all the feel good rallying and pet projects, the truth is coming out that many occupiers of Youngstown have no personal investment into the City and what manifest itself is the scramble for POWER. And of course a nice salary to support their efforts. Notice how these institutions self aggrandize themselves with all the photo ops they can get and the non profits pumping out as much high gloss kudos. Lately, I read of an article wherein they are justifying small droplets of community projects as a necessary kickstart to the complete transformation of Youngstown. No folks, I..... like many here, have seen it go on and on and on.
The only cure for Youngstown is what built it to greatness before, pure, raw free enterprise. Rightsizing as Hunter Morrison proclaimed and Youngstown 2010 which gave Jay Williams his power; Big question....where are they now......as soon as a bigger paycheck and power position became available they dropped Youngstown as if it was a fillet of walleye from the Mahoning river. You see, these bloviating "look at us, come walk with me in Wick Park" actors are more concerned with padding their resume's for a power position at your taxpaying expense. The only leader that will take us out of the third world status is an industrialist, someone from the private sector. But they will never come, the occupiers have been successful in demonizing anyone who has track record, even alienating the producers from the suburbs.
Very soon, I too will be exiting Youngstown. After moving from Poland fifteen years ago and investing and working hard to do business in this urban center, I now fully understand that as long as entitled receivers rule and are the majority, there is no place for entrepreneurs in this town. I didn't have to move from Poland to the City, I decided to take a shot at becoming an urban pioneer. Having a gun to my head and another gun in my wife's face in our driveway a block from your beautiful Wick Park knocked sense into my head last summer. Oh, these thugs are still running around the northside, so arm yourselves.
For the last eight years, I built a nice store in Poland, joined a real community non profit that actually has built assets, big assets and accomplishments in Poland, I no longer want to be a part of this community. Funny, all my friends and associates in the suburbs and rural America are saying, "we told you so" , their families left this failure of a City years ago. Don't worry though, my associates and I will continue to invest and hold assets in Youngstown because we know very soon as you buldoze your way to progress, there will be only beautiful vacant acreage left with all the abandoned City lots returning to greenery. The ghettos will shift outward and what will remain will be in the hands of the silent investors gobbling up your lands. As the global energy companies continue their onslaught in buying up all the land for the minerals, many of you will be priced out of this market. This will happen sooner than you realize. The choice for relocation will not be in the Utica shale region, it most likely be in another run down third world urban center.
Wow..... ???
My wife and I were going to restore a beautiful two story brick house on a one acre lot on Lansdowne Ave. until one day about 8 years ago, we went out for lunch and came back an hour later to find that one of the side windows had been broken in a robbery attempt.
We instead bought a house in Hubbard Township and have never had any problems here. We didn't wait for the gun to the head.
Quote from: Rick Rowlands on June 25, 2012, 07:37:16 AM
My wife and I were going to restore a beautiful two story brick house on a one acre lot on Lansdowne Ave. until one day about 8 years ago, we went out for lunch and came back an hour later to find that one of the side windows had been broken in a robbery attempt.
We instead bought a house in Hubbard Township and have never had any problems here. We didn't wait for the gun to the head.
Vacant houses are targets for theft.
I was burglarized a couple years ago. Instead of fleeing for the suburbs, I stayed. I haven't been the victim of a crime, since.
Westsider, the word "fleeing" is an insult to my Ohio Family name, I am a veteran, my father took a bullet to the head in Korea and an AK47 round in his foot as a Green Beret in Vietnam, my Ohio grandfather was killed in a Japanese concentration camp protecting your freedom here in what is now a City that tramples on our freedoms as they wish.
No, I'm restoring an 1840 Greek Revival in Poland, where real community organizing builds parks, moves and restores historic homes, builds amphitheatres and shows outdoor movies without grants and handouts from taxpayers. As the occupiers dream of a hipster downtown, the silent majority in their safe neighborhoods built theirs without entitlements. Even as we speak the bridge wall behind the Poland library is being patched and painted for this years eighth season of successful movie showing, the pedestrian Reed Memorial Stairway continues to draw prom, graduation and wedding photo backgrounds without subsidy but advertisement sales. You see free enterprise is alive and well in rural and suburban Ohio.
So please honor the veterans who do not flee but fade away when government betrays them. Please look at the picture attached and honor those who kept you free.
I'll tell you the truth, there were times when I thought seriously of moving back to my hometown so I could get away from all the **** that goes on here, but unfortunately that's out of the question financially, but fortunately, I'm surrounded by real friends a reasonably quiet neighborhood, and have had no real problems crime wise, but I must agree with you Shrimp and Rick on many of the points you make.
At heart, I'm a loner ... I prefer my privacy, and so long as that is intact I'm satisfied. I've never been one to go ramming around to every event that comes along like some folks I know, and so long as that can be maintained, I'm content.
Youngstownshrimp, if what Westsider said insults you, imo, you get insulted too easily.
I would like to say that I applaud Rick's efforts to do the right thing with his house, even if he chose not to live there. Instead of just abandoning it, or unloading it to the first slum-lord to make an offer, I believe I read somewhere that he found a good tenant or buyer for it.
Yes I did. He is doing great over there, and as soon as we get the bonus check from the natural gas lease we're putting a new roof on it. He has a HUGE garden planted, and the stray dog that was wandering around the neighborhood was adopted and now has a good home.
Facts are that majority of the demo houses in Youngstown, are not rental property but property owners who have fled the City once their houses were stripped and vandalized by the crack heads of Metro Youngstown and unable to pay demolition fees. Many also are deceased. Real estate investors are the majority of the payees for demolition despite the City collecting demolition fees from them and illegally hiding these funds in their General account and not returning the demo funds to the Feds or State.
FUNNY I do not see any hipsters decrying this act.