You can check out a recording of today's earthquake at this site....
watch the scale start jumping at the 15:00 hour line.....yikes!
http://www.mgs.md.gov/seismics/helicorder.php?channel=Z&scope=H&submit=view&d=31&m=12&m=12&y=2011 (http://www.mgs.md.gov/seismics/helicorder.php?channel=Z&scope=H&submit=view&d=31&m=12&m=12&y=2011)
Dennis, the case you were making was confirmed Saturday.
Ohio bans injection wells within 5 miles of the D&L site in Youngstown
http://www.vindy.com/news/2012/jan/01/ohio-bans-injection-wells-near-dl-site-youngstown/ (http://www.vindy.com/news/2012/jan/01/ohio-bans-injection-wells-near-dl-site-youngstown/)
Sorry Towntalk but I do not see where it has been confirmed.
It is possible, but I still see a lot of people who are still guessing...........
A list of comments from various sources.
"The injection well is suspected...."
"that it may have caused"
"Officials believe"
"Scientists are looking into....."
So it is still questionable. I still find it hard to believe that we can effect mother earth. But I will wait for the scientists to actually say it. And of course I hope they find out that it has nothing to do with the well.. But I will wait and see.
I was pretty skeptical at first but there does seem to be more than just a huge coincidence happening around the well.
But I have to wonder if we are really causing the quakes or are just prodding along something that would be happening eventually anyway.
And if so, maybe we are inadvertantly actually helping matters by causing some small earthquakes to stem off something huge. Like when they cause small avalanches in the mountains to avoid "the big one".
Sarge, what is science fact and science fiction, true science and pseudo science? Daily we are inundated with programs that pass for true science on the History Channel and H2 Channel, and if we were to take them seriously we might just put a gun to our heads and blow our brains out and be done with it because they are preaching that the world will end December 21, 2012 (this December).
At the same time these same experts tell us that our progenitors were aliens from outer space who taught us all we know and that God was really a spaceman from another planet.
If a college or university professor were to pass off the garbage that passes for science on the History Channel as absolute fact, or even a viable theory, he would be fired.
As to the earthquakes a reasonable question can be raised. Prior to that company injecting the fluids, there were no known earthquakes in that area, yet after they came we've experienced 11 in one year.
The unfortunate thing is that that particular fault line was an unknown, and neither state or federal law require a seismic examination prior to drilling.
We've always known that Mahoning County lies on a fault line but this particular fault was an unknown, and as the New York Times pointed out the injection of the fraking fluid acts like a lubrication making fault movements more noticeable.
It's too bad that scientists from California who really are experts on earthquakes haven't been brought in to either confirm or debunk the idea that the wells are responsible.
I would hope most of us can tell real science from science fiction.
I would love to have some real experts come in. Because there is enough circumstance to warrant a closer look.
Yet at the same time, this has not happened before as far as I can tell. Or has there been other instances?
We need to watch and see who they have doing the testing and what their qualifications are. I've already determined that one local seismologist is rather biased in his assumptions.
I wish I had your optimism about the human race but considering all the garbage that so many folks swallow unthinkingly it will take a great deal of convincing before I can even consider having second thoughts. Just historic events on my lifetime demonstrate man's gullability.
Hitler said that if he told a lie enough times that people would eventually accept it as fact.
Good point.
Case in point, I had a good MD friend who was extremely intelligent, and so devoted to his profession that he gave 6 months a year to helping children in a Hong Kong hospital free of charge, yet in some ways he was a real lulu who thought that he was the reincarnation of Nostradamus. When he would give lectures it was amazing the number of people that went to hear him.
Quote from: Why?Town on January 01, 2012, 12:08:03 PM
I was pretty skeptical at first but there does seem to be more than just a huge coincidence happening around the well.
But I have to wonder if we are really causing the quakes or are just prodding along something that would be happening eventually anyway.
And if so, maybe we are inadvertantly actually helping matters by causing some small earthquakes to stem off something huge. Like when they cause small avalanches in the mountains to avoid "the big one".
But please realize that the area in question is a BRINE INJECTION WELL. When the media and others say fracking is causing this, they are simply wrong.
Yes ytowner, I do realize this is at the injection well. Thanks for pointing it out to those that may not be aware.
Actually, it was Hitler's colleague Joseph Goebbels (and not Hitler) who gave the aforementioned quote of
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it"
This reminds me of a new, soon-to-be-famous quote:
"If you tell others Hitler did something and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."
ha.
happy new year!
You obviously haven't read Mein Kampf.
"All propaganda has to be popular and has to adapt its spiritual level to the perception of the least intelligent of those toward whom it intends to direct itself." Mein Kampf - Chapter 6.
Goebbels was simply applying Hitler's written statement. The doctrine itself is ancient and has been used by many both for good and ill, and unfortunately it's true regardless of who says it. We see it applied every single day in the news, on talk radio, and even in commercials.
You're right, I have not read Mein Kampf.
I did a search for the quote on the internets and multiple sources came up with Goebbels.
happy new year!
We're both right sunshine, but Hitler's is older. He wrote it in the 1920's while in prison after his failed coup d'état, and Goebbels the chicken farmer simply applied it.
And a Happy New Year to you.
Some more Hitler quotes:"By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise.""The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.""But the most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over. Here, as so often in this world, persistence is the first and most important requirement for success.""The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be
"The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed, for the vast masses of the nation are in the depths of their hearts more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad. The primitive simplicity of their minds renders them a more easy prey to a big lie than a small one, for they themselves often tell little lies but would be ashamed to tell a big one."
How does all this talk about Hitler apply to the topic of this thread? Simply this, we are inundated with talk pro and con about fraking and wells with all the nuances that go with it, yet most of us are not experts, so we have to rely on those who are in the know, but who can we trust? Both sides have ulterior motives which an either weigh to our benefit or to our regret, ie. Propaganda.
On the one hand you wouldn't go to a ditch digger to diagnose cancer, nor would you go to a dishwasher to resolve a legal question. But at the same time when the most important investment in you life is at stake you want on your side the best legal advice that is available and that doesn't come easy, especially from sources that are found on internet web sites.
One of the best places to go would be the County Bar Association, and a second source would be the main branch of the Public Library's General Reference department that possesses credible materials that can be provide by the librarian.
The prospect of riches has blinded many, but without the proper due diligence, that prospect can turn into a nightmare. This is why we should never trust any website we stumble over that is not run by a known source such as the BBB; the state, or federal government, or a newspaper article that can lead to trustworthy sources.
Towntalk, there are times I wonder about the state.................
Ytowner.....
If there were no big push for fracking wells, there would be no need for injection wells....
fracking wells and injection wells are kissing cousins....
we don't need either of them.....
I'm...........................slowly...............beginning to understand Spisak..............we do not need natural gas to heat ourselves.....................and oil for our cars ........................is no longer required...........................bicycles............and burning our forest for heat...................is all that ..................is needed..................Achtung! Heil SpisaK!!!!!!!!!!!
Eiselstein, I think you need to triple your meds.....