A New Downtown Youngstown

[northside lurker]

Janko,
You've said everything I was thinking, but probably in a much more coherent manner, thanks.

[Janko]

I think comparing the work of the Michigan students to the 2010 plan is like comparing apples to oranges.

The 2010 plan was a land use study. Hardly anything else.

Sure, there were some general items out there like "rebuild the north side pool" and "demolish the salvation army building", but as the whole, concerning the planning of downtown, nothing was planned out to the level that the Michigan students are attempting.

Next point, the story in the paper refers to a class of city planning student from U. of Michigan coming here for a design studio. Their main costs for this project are probably derived from the tutition they pay to take this class. Maybe in the two days they were here, perhaps some entity paid for night in the dorm rooms, dinner or lunch here or there, but I bet for the most part this was a project done on the cheap, considering its student labor.

Next point, they did engage YSU student while they were here. They spent time with business leaders, time with students, time with young professionals, time with (gasp) artists, time with city leaders, time with local institutions like the Symphony, and time with landowners. It's called listening to your stakeholders.

Next point, the students who did this are from a city planning program, en route to be professionals in this field. While YSU students may produce good ideas, comparatively, they are not qualified to do this type of plan. There are no archiecture or city planning programs in town.

Next point, when this project is completed, the suggestions they provide may or may not be taken. They are like an idea farm, maybe some will take root, maybe some will be ignored. It's called a process.

Next point, we need people sometimes to come from the outside with ideas. Since very few people seem to relocate into this area, maybe visitors can provide us with a fresh perspective, or alternate ways to look at ourselves. I for one enjoy meeting people who visit from the outside. They say, "you know. you have a great town here. It's too bad most of the locals don't see it that way." But then again, being a tourist and being a resident are two different things. BUT, if the residents work with input from the stakeholders in the city, you'll probably get better ideas than if they met no one.

I can continue with more points, but Youngstown needs a holistic, system-based approach to many of its problems.

True, you do need to stop crime, true you need better schools, but you also need to have places that people feel are safe and worth spending their time in. The goal here is to get more people living downtown, and working in city, which will pay more money to improve things like the schools and the police, assuming money is the answer.

Crime will decline when people have jobs, and good people are moving into neighborhoods. You may disagree that a planning studio may lead to better schools, but I think it's a way to get ideas on the cheap from students who have seen the world, and may make our little slice of the world a better place.

[Towntalk]

A number of years ago, a group of college students were brought in for the very same reason and a bundle of money was spent on the project with the central focus of attention being Market Court Alley located between Federal Street and Boardman St, from Hazel to S. Chestnut Street., certainly not a huge area in the total picture.

A 3d model is all we have to show for our money sitting around collecting dust.

I have absolutely nothing against college students, and certainly their input is needed, but my heavens, we have a perfectly good 2010 plan that is getting national praise, so why change it now just to give these folks a project for credit?

Now if they were given a single building to work on like the Kress Building, that would be a horse of a different color, but turning the centerpiece of the 2010 Plan over to them, that I have a problem with.

Lets address though the central issue I have with this whole exercise.

Just how many restaurants, night clubs, etc can the downtown area economically support?

Realistically speaking when do we reach the saturation point.

As I said, putting apartment buildings downtown I support whole heartedly, and once they are a reality, the restaurants and night clubs that are already there will expand on their own, but until there is a real customer base for them, they won't. That is simple 101 economics.

A second economics 101 fact is that no business district can depend on purely a college student economic base because this base isn't exactly rolling in cash. If that were the case, and college students were rolling in money, Kent would have a vibrant flourishing business district since Kent State has more students than YSU.

We spent thousands and thousands of dollars putting the 2010 plan together, had dozens of meetings where the public had their input including YSU students so why toss all that work away now?

This city has major problems with public safety that must be addressed, and before we can ever hope to convince people to come downtown in droves, that problem must be addressed, and that takes money. If money is diverted to have a group of students from outside the area come in to come up with a plan that will never be implemented, we will have not solved our city's core problem.

The addition of Police substations is a great idea, but are those stations manned on a 24/7 basis? That takes money to have police officers based at these substations.

Now if those student city planners were given an area outside the core 2010 area to work on, I would have no objections. What about the Market Street area, or the South Avenue area, or for that matter the Mahoning Avenue or Fifth Avenue area? These areas are all corridors to the downtown area, and the first things that outside visitors see when they come into the city.

[Jaime Hughes]

I for one am very happy and honored that these students were able to come to Youngstown and see our beautiful city. I got to meet these students and they are very optimistic and eager to help out.


My question is....why wont they listen to our own students about the city? YSU students (most of them) are from the area, they know the area.... I know a lot of them have ideas about our downtown also, like myself they are shut down.

[Towntalk]

You're not alone. I've read study after study after everlasting study about turning Youngstown around as I've said since Black Monday, and NONE of which was actually ever implemented ... studies that cost taxpayers thousands of dollars each. Youngstown in point of fact is one of the most studied cities in Ohio. I seriously doubt that the powers that be have ever read a single one of them, and I'm aware of at least 50.

WE KNOW THE PROBLEMS FACING YOUNGSTOWN, AND BEFORE ANOTHER STUDY IS ASSEMBLED, THE TIME IS LONG PAST FOR THE MAYOR AND POLICE CHIEF TO ADDRESS THOSE IMMEDIATE PROBLEMS, AND FORCE THE POLICE TO DO THEIR JOBS OR ELSE.

AGAIN, THE TIME HAS COME FOR THE MAYOR TO PUT THOSE RESPONSABLE FOR SLUM CLEARANCE ON NOTICE THAT THEY HAVE 30 DAYS TO PROVE THEY ARE DOING THEIR JOB OR THEY'RE FIRED!

AS TO THE BOARD OF EDUCATION, THE WHOLE LOT AREN'T WORTH TWO CENTS AND NEED TO BE BOOTED OUT ... NO EXCEPTION, BUT UNFORTUNATELY THE VOTERS OF YOUNGSTOWN ARE TOO IGNORENT TO BE EXPECTED TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

A great deal of the blame has to be placed at the feet of the local news media for not putting the facts before the people and not only asking the tough questions of the candidates, but crucifying them if they don't live up to their campaign promises.

Personally I don't believe a word any candidate says ... NOT A SINGLE WORD ... IT'S THEIR DEEDS IN OFFICE THAT WHAT I MEASURE THEM BY.

[shantrivialand]

No offense, but I come on here and see all these people wanting to beautify the city and salvage old houses and what not, but if you want Youngstown to be beautiful you need to start with the school systems.  I would be afraid to send my kids to the schools.  I am afraid to travel down some streets and I would definately be more afraid to WALK down some of the streets.  Make Youngstown a place where people WANT to live.  Make people say "I want a house in the Youngstown City school district".  It all starts with education on oppurtunity. 

[Towntalk]

In todays Vindicator is a report of University Students taking a look at downtown Youngstown with redesign in mind.
http://www.vindy.com/content/local_regional/301785822071866.php

My question is, (1) does this mean that we will see the downtown area torn up again, (2) just how many cafe's and restaurants can the downtown area reasonably economically support, (3) and most importantly, where would the money come from?

How many restaurants can the downtown area economically support? 10 - 50 - 100? How many taverns 20 - 40 - 60? How many nightclubs 60 - 80 - 100?

The affordable housing is a good idea.

One idea would be to do yet another study of the old Kress building to see if it could be salvaged and turned into apartments. Another would be for the city to meet with the owner of the old Paramount and agree to give him all the money he needs to restore the building even if they have to take it from Police and Fire needs. We can also take money from all the other city funds to fund whatever plan these outsiders come up with.

The real question that needs to be asked is why out of state students are being brought in when we already have local university students that are in a far better position to do the job.

Further, we already have a 2010 plan ... how much of it has been completed? So are we suppose to toss it out and start again with a whole new plan? This is what is wrong with the local officials ... they don't come up with a single plan and stick to that plan through compleation.

My heavens, since Black Monday there have been so many plans and studies made about Youngstown that they could fill a room at the Main Branch of the Public Library, and not one of those studies and plans have ever been implemented to compleation. With all of the thousands of dollars spent on those studies, we could have rebuilt downtown Youngstown from bottom up.