Will the Liberty Theatre get Knocked Down???

[Towntalk]

I suggested this shortly after the topic was first addressed on this board and some thought it silly.

Lets look at it again.

By turning that corner into a green space as you suggest, it would not only provide a space where folks can meet, but it would also take some pressure off the Square when parties are held downtown.

The side wall of the Ceaders would also be an ideal place to mount a screen for showing movies with the added advantage that it would spruce up the area.

I also agree that the last thing we need there is anothr parking lot.

[penguinnick]

As much as I would love to save both the State and Paramount  - or at least one of them, we need to be realistic.  Youngstown already has a lot of theatres and the population can only support so many.  It would have been great if the Y-town Playhouse would have moved to the State as they proposed about ten years ago but for whatever reason that did not happen.  The State is scheduled for demolition and it appears the Paramount will follow suit.  Where the Paramount now stands I want to see an urban park with a large fountain and lots of trees & flowers, where people will flock to at lunchtime and where bands could play at lunchtime during the summer (as happens in Pittsburgh).  This will be relaxing to the eyes as opposed to the present.  BUT PLEASE NO PARKING LOT!!

[Towntalk]

Several years ago, in Toronto, a theater of similar size and in similar condition collapsed damaging buildings around it and killed three.

Even the current owner has warned people not to go inside the building until the building was stabilized.

As to the balcony, it is attached to the outer walls and not part of them. hence if the Hazel street side was weakened enough to start to collapse, or if the mortar sufficiently rotted away as to allow water in, the walls could pull away from the beams holding up the balcony.

The other side has protection from the building next door, but by itself, it couldn't hold the balcony up, and it would collapse downward according to computer models.

We know that the inner wall on the Hazel street side is gone, and in spots the trusses can be seen, and absent the roof, water is already getting in, and given the time that the building has been empty, and the roof gone, the chances are good that a number of those trusses are  already weakened.

The big question is how weakened are they. Remember that they thought that the Higbee parking deck would be a breeze to knock down, but when the work actually began, they found that the deck was stronger than they thought. The truss system was still strong enough to hold up the building even though the wrecking ball was  busting down the side walls.

My concern is not the truss system as much as it is the walls themself. We don't really know the current condition of the brickwork behind the terracotta shell. If as in the case of portions of the State, brickwork is separating (Note the brickwork that has already fallen off the State in sufficient to damage the roofs of the buildings next door) the Hazel Street wall could collapse of its own weight onto Hazel Street, and the terracotta could not on its own hold it in place.

Again there is the weight of the fire escape pulling on the Hazel Street side of the building. That too is a factor that should be considered.

Finally there is the condition of the foundation. How stable is it?

When I was in the building in the 1980's when the first attempt was made to restore the building, some of the walls were in extremely bad shape. They could not have been improved any since then, and absent a roof, water naturally collects there.

The question needs to be asked what is the total layout of the foundation, and this could only be answered by viewing blueprints of the building.

Does the foundation extend the whole length of the building, or is it in two parts with a void in between? In some buildings the basement is in two sections, a font basement and a rear basement with just utility tunnels between.

If I'm not mistaken, Paul did have a study done on the building by engineers, and stated that it would take millions of dollars just to stabilize the building. That is why no work has been done since he bought it.

[northside lurker]

Remember that the bulk of the building is the auditorium ... a shell that just has the side walls and roof to support it, and given the current condition of the roof the side walls have little to support them. These walls are weakening because of weather, and it's just a matter of time before enough mortar rots as is happening over at the State (See Jay's photos) and the walls facing Hazel are going to give way.

Sorry to split hairs, but don't forget that the balcony structure offers some stability to the walls for almost 2/3 the length of the building.

Has there been a study to determine whether the structure is unsound?  Such a study might be less expensive than demolition and the cost of a new parking lot.

[Towntalk]

Again I find myself in agreement with YtownNewsandViews on the matter of the Paramount.

We can all agree that the Paramount is beyond repare. We can also agree that it is a safety hazard as it stands. We can also agree that there is no one locally who is willing to put the money into salvaging it.

What then will it take to convince people that the time has come for it to be demolished? Do innocent people have to die because of a building collapse before they are convinced?

Remember that the bulk of the building is the auditorium ... a shell that just has the side walls and roof to support it, and given the current condition of the roof the side walls have little to support them. These walls are weakening because of weather, and it's just a matter of time before enough mortar rots as is happening over at the State (See Jay's photos) and the walls facing Hazel are going to give way.

I agree that the Kress building is ugly as it stands and I agree that the Wells building is also ugly as it stands today, but here we are talking about the Paramount, and something has to be done there, and the sooner the better for all our sakes.

[northside lurker]

This is a matter of opinion, of course, but the ugliest buildings downtown are across Hazel street from the Paramount.

If I wanted a bland downtown, I'd move to Columbus.

[ytowner]

I am embarrassed to bring my family and friends from out of town down Federal Street because every single one of them say look at the piece of crap building.

I don't care about it's value, it's a worthless building that cannot be saved. Stop living in the past, it's about our future! Keeping that eyesore up only hurts us as we try to rebuild downtown.

Geeze People... When you want to keep up arguably the ugliest building in our downtown, you are not thinking! UGH!

[northside lurker]

There really isn't anything special about it.  It's not ground breaking architecture like the old Isaly Dairy building.  It's not grand on nearly the same scale as the Stambaugh Auditorium.

But, if it's replaced by a surface parking lot, or a government building similar to what's across Hazel St., downtown will have that much less character.  So much of downtown has already been lost, which is why it's important (at least to me) that we try to save what little we have left.

[Towntalk]

Could someone please tell me what is so valuable about the front wall of the Paramount in regards to architectural or historic value that hundreds of thousands of dollars that we can ill afford to spend given the economy of both the city and county should be spent on it just to please a small hand full of folks that wouldn't have any of their own personal money invested in it?

PLEASE BE SPECIFIC

I've seen hundreds of theater photos on Cinema Treasures and must say that the Paramount does not even come close to any of comparative size.

Just what features are there that make this building so precious?

Now as for the State, it does have an architectural feature worthy of saving and incorporating into a new building, but with the Paramount there are none.

Sure, it was built in 1913, but it's falling apart, it poses a hazard to people walking in the area as well as nearby buildings, and no one wants to risk their money on restoration, knowing that it would be cheaper to build a new building on the site.

[northside lurker]

Why the rush to tear it down?  Why must we be so quick to replace another piece of architecture with a parking lot?

I like the idea of saving the facade and creating an outdoor theater.  There is already a group working on putting together outdoor movies downtown.  This would be a great location for that.

I'm also OK with the idea of saving the facade and building a new parking deck behind it.

But, once the building is gone, it's gone forever.  So, as far as I'm concerned, whatever replaces it should be worthy of replacing it.

[AllanY2525]

Don't forget about one of the city's most beautiful venues:  Stambaugh Auditorium

[ytowner]

We wasted 5 years of not knocking this thing down. I've been the #1 preacher of tearing it down. I liked hearing what that guy wanted to do with it, but quickly realized that would not work when he got no money.

KNOCK IT DOWN!

[Rick Rowlands]

I think at this point the building needs to go.  There comes a time when it just become not feasible to pursue.  Its a limited use building that will require too much to fix up, and would take resouces away from other more worthy projects.  The city does not need another venue.  We have the Warner, Stambaugh, and the Chevy Center downtown, not including the facilities at YSU. That corner lot can be utilized for a new building that may provide additional downtown office jobs. 

Its a battle that cannot be won, so lets move on ot something that can be accomplished.

[Jaime Hughes]

Yeah, I told Phil about the idiot that is supposed to be restoring the theatre. Paul Warshauer is his name, google it and you'll find that he is a con artist and a crook. He has many pending lawsuits and he promised many other cities similar to ours that he would restore their theatres also. Warshauer likes to steal money from the city that he said he would use for theatres and run. He is currently being charged by the federal government for embezzlement and has 3 lawsuits in California for sexual assault on high school males.


He was never nor will ever restore that theatre. Congressmen Ryan wanted to keep the facade and make it an outdoor theatre, some YSU professors want to see them keep the facade and make it into a parking deck, and others want them to tear it down completely and make it into more parking.

[ytowner]

We all heard it is not safe to repair and the guy isn't getting the gov't dollars to fix it up. I recall Phil Kidd bring it up and saying we'd like what would go there or what will happen instead, but we have heard nothing.

Anyone know?