Since majority of the vacant land on the Eastside have no interested investors, the City should offer all of it for homesteading to the Amish.
I'm under the impression that the Amish really don't want to live in cities.
Well, from what little I know about the east side, parts of it are not very urban. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Amish care if they live within a city's limits.
As Shrimp mentioned in another thread, the Amish may simply be unaware of the cost and availability of the land on the east side.
The last master plan for the city (1950's) estimated that the city would
reach a population of 250,000 people by the year 2000. The projections
were that most of the additional growth and development would take place
on the East Side.
The East Side never really did get developed, and for the large part, remained
rural - just as we see it now. There are streets on the map on this side of
town that were planned out (and in some cases, actually built) that never got
filled with houses.
If one were to go onto the Auditor site and look up (owner) Youngstown, or Youngstown Revitalization and you will see majority of the vacant parcels and acreage help by the City. Most of this property has sat dormant without even tax revenue for decades if not half a century. The City should announce a "Homestead Plan" , whoever offers to till the soil and pay "agricultural zoned" taxes can homestead.
The Amish live in communities, and unless a significant number of amish moved to the east side I don't think this would work. Also, the amish are a no bullshit group of people and would not tolerate the excessive government intrusion existing in cities. Several members of the parasite class living on the east side would complain to their council member about the horses, tractors, smells and good old fashioned hard work, and the council member would then overstep their bounds and harass the amish until they moved back out. Isn't that what happened with you Ron?
Unless you have a reason to punish the amish, I would not suggest that they move to Youngstown.
Not all Amish live in communities. I know of at least 2 families (don't know them personally) back in my home town who didn't live near a community. One family lived in a suburb just east of Massillon, (about 2 blocks away from the city limits) and the other lived in the country just south of Massillon.
What do you mean by government intrusion in the cities? I won't say anything about Ron's shrimp farms. But, the only other example of a family trying and failing to make a go of farming in the city, bought land that wasn't zoned agricultural, and someone nearby objected to the zoning change. (but it's been awhile, I may not be remembering correctly)
The only drawback I can see to farming in the city is the income tax. But, the cost of the land may offset that.
I have to agree with Rick. The Almish live in self contained communities of self government. Youngstown would have to turn the land over to them with the understanding that the new community would be just that, absent any city jurisdiction.
Westsider your examples are the rare exception and not the rule.
Can you cite where you read that the Amish are exempt from the laws of the land where they live? They aren't like native Americans who live on reservations. The only exemption I'm aware of, is schooling. Besides the income tax, I see no difference between living/working in a rural part of the city, or in a rural part of a township.
I know the examples I posted are exceptions. But they do happen. How much land are we talking about on the east side, anyway? Maybe a small community of Amish would decide to form there? Or, maybe they wouldn't live there at all; they would just farm the land. I'm sure they could find an "English" laborer to drive them to and from their east side land.
When I say that they lived in self contained communities I'm referring to self governing communities with their own leaders and governing bodies.
Certainly there are Amish that live in non-Almish communities just as there are non Amish that live in Amish communities.
There is a HUGE difference between living in an incorporated area and living in an unincorporated area. There is no such thing as a book of city ordinances in an unincorporated area, and because of the absence of those laws people living in rural areas are more free... by definition. In areas such as around New Wilmington one would be hard pressed to find a government official roaming around sticking his nose into the private affairs of landowners, but in a city there are scores of government employees, and more people around to call and complain, not to mention more restrictive laws necessitated by the realities of city life.
In my ongoing ordeal with the City in relationship to agriculture within the municipality my counsel and myself have uncovered the essence and evolution of the zoning ordnance of Youngstown. One must remember similar to majority of municipalities in Ohio, zoning ordinances were created mainly to control industrial, commercial and residential growth during the City's evolution. The question of agriculture was only and issue of concern with encroachment of municipalities into agricultural lands, it was one way. Today, with the retreat of municipal growth, the pendulum is swinging the other way with urban agriculture being an innovative endeavor, not to mention crops in the middle of the urban markets. In a nutshell, municipalities were never suppose to regulate what is basically a constitutional right of property owners, and cities never regulated vegetable gardens and livestock as long as a nuisance wasn't committed. What is rare in Youngstown zoning unlike the majority of municipalities in Ohio, most residential zoning on the eastside has "crop farming" as a permitted use. Youngstown thru the decades, never really opposed agriculture, they just never had a demand for it.
Thanks for the information Ron.
Quote from: Rick Rowlands on September 07, 2010, 09:51:55 PM
There is a HUGE difference between living in an incorporated area and living in an unincorporated area. There is no such thing as a book of city ordinances in an unincorporated area, and because of the absence of those laws people living in rural areas are more free... by definition. In areas such as around New Wilmington one would be hard pressed to find a government official roaming around sticking his nose into the private affairs of landowners, but in a city there are scores of government employees, and more people around to call and complain, not to mention more restrictive laws necessitated by the realities of city life.
Rick, since you and your neighbors are free to do what you want with your property, what do you do if you neighbor decides they want open a used mattress collection and incineration business? Or, more realistically, they start collecting junk cars and allow their property to become a toxic mess from leaking fluids?
This is probably just a "pipe dream". but perhaps the city could create an area on
the map that could be designated as outside the city limits, ie: Resurrect a portion
of the former "YOUNGSTOWN TOWNSHIP" - and let the Amish live there, outside
the reach of city government - just like Mill Creek Park, which is the last remaining
portion of the township....and has its own governing body
Does Mill Creek Park have a board of trustees or something similar? I really don't
know on that one (?)
:)
I guess the question that needs to be answered here is whether the City is interested in studying an Amish settlement on the abandoned lands of the eastside. Rey Decarlo has revealed to me that a fund is in place for an overhaul of current City zoning but no one has pulled the trigger for the City to proceed. For this idea to have vision and bear fruit, WE must seek an answer from the City, how?
I'm sure if the Amish wanted to live in or near Youngstown they would already be doing so.
Considering their somewhat docile nature combined with the fact that they don't have telephones I could see them being the target of any number of criminal types that would consider them easy prey.
Here's your answer Allan.
http://www.millcreekmetroparks.com/AboutUs/BoardofParkCommissioners/tabid/1602/Default.aspx
If it works in Cleveland, why not Youngstown?
http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=138805&catid=45
If you ever visit Holmes county the largest Amish settlement in the nation, you will see prosperity. Thru the generations, they have built from the dirt, cheese plants, wineries, furniture, farms, restaurants, gift shops, hotels .etc. They have made their county the top land values in the state. They practice IMO the libertarian approach to life, very little government. Infact, while I was talking to the owner(retired Clemson professor) of the Millersburg Glass Museum, he told me a story that when he notified the county that they can apply for a grant on a certain project, the county clammed shut. Their response to him was that they are not interested in any government handouts!
Youngstown is fortunate to be surrounded by Amish settlements, we can learn from them, just as westside showed us.
Back then I was close, but it is not the Amish who will farm the dormant Lands of Youngstown, it is the Veteran.
Google: Veteran Farmer, Veteran Farming Coalition, Military Veteran Agriculture Liaison USDA, or even Dandelion Farms in Columbiana.
Update, one Amish farmer is soon to make application for acreage in the eastside for tree farming, will the City let him in???