Topic: Problem Near Wick Park

[Jaime Hughes]

What about the NorthSide Citizens Coalition? Or Wick Neighbors? And this isn't about financial aid either, or where the people live.

[jay]

Does a north side organization already exist whose mission could include the rehabilitation of homes such as the one on Park Avenue?   I'm pretty sure that most people who have expressed an interest in helping financially do not even live in this north side neighborhood.   

[Jaime Hughes]

Well Good luck everyone on trying to save this house. It is a beautiful house but it is a lost cause. It would take thousands and thousands of dollars to restore all of the damage already done. My question is, why did it  to get to this point to get everyone rallied up? Before there was not a finger lifted to help and all of a sudden everyone is jumping at the bit to save this house.

I appriciate the help but there's nothing that can be done at this point. We have seen the house, spoke to realtors and talked to the city AND the owner. A few months ago this association and meetings would have been wonderful. The house has already been damaged, ransacked, ripped apart.


I have tried to get involved in Youngstown and it's revolution, but it's almost impossible because the other groups and that act as if they are kids in a "secret club" and won't let anyone else in. This is half the reason Patrons of Youngstown Arts disbanded, because it was pointless to have, there are tons of other pointless groups out there, my question is why does there have to be groups? Why cant we just be great people from Youngstown that care about our city and want to help? It was impossible for Corey and I to ever get really involved because we were just college kids, everyone we were working with were young businessmen and women or city officials, they could have cared less about us.

I mean does anyone see a problem here? There are 13,000 students on YSU's campus and very few of them are getting involved? See a pattern here?


Sometimes it's not about meetings or rallies or interviews, it's about getting your hands dirty. I could care less about the Vindicator or WFMJ jumping on this story, people from Youngstown are stubborn and I have seen this, and it's alright it makes you who you are. But, this house is unsalvagable! If you want to do something...come get your hands dirty, don't go out having meetings or making important phone calls...go over there, clean up the yard, board up the house...show that you are actually doing something.


It just makes me so mad that we have been over there for months, cleaning up day after day with this house, even when vandals just come the next day to ruin what we did, we were STILL out there redoing and fixing everything. We dealt with a slimy horrible owner and an unresponsive government but yet day in and day out we were there taking care of a house that wasn't even ours and we didn't tell anyone we were doing it. We wanted people to see that two Youngstown citizens were doing something right and not some organization for downtown.


Im just mad, you wonder why people flee Youngstown, please take a better look at the whole grand sceme of things. Youngstown is imploding and this is why everyone really wants to just get out.

[westsider]

I'm also unable to attend this Saturday.  But I would like to help in the future.

[AllanY2525]

Defend Y-Town:

Can you please send me an e-mail with the minutes of this meeting
after it is over?

My address is allany2525@yahoo.com

I wish I could attend, but I live in Maryland and won't be there to
take part - I WOULD if I could.

Thanks!

Allan

[Defend Youngstown]

I am 100% committed (fincially speaking as well) to this effort and I know several other who probably will be as well. A few of us have had an "off board" conversation about this today.

Anthony Kobak from City Planning offered the following:

"Mark Williams is the housing inspector assigned to this case. The City
served him (I assume he means the owner) a 30 day notice on March 14 to raze or repair. Mark
said he (again, I assume Anthony means the owner) would probably deal to get out of the house since the City has
been on him about this house."

I'm also going to speak with Jay about how legitimate/serious this "spot eminent domain" policy is and what the timeline on something like this would be/could 259 Park be an example of its use. Could an existing neighborhood organization (whom makes a viable case for fiscial and physical support) be transferred or sold the the property at a very reasonable rate? Could it be colabrative effort whereby the house serves as a various non-profit "meeting house/business headquaters" for the North Side and costs for upkeep shared ? Maybe it could be a Non-Profit Incubator, using the "idea-sharing cluster" approach? Wean Foundation Neighborhood Organizing Initiative?

We should also speak to Deb Weaver regarding her "nusiance lawsuit" strategy she's working on, as well as, her knowledge and input on the formation of a non-profit (if needed).

Bottomline: You pick and choose battles in this city. This is an important house in an important area. Wick Park is being revitilized. "Neighborhood 120" (just east of the park) is a target neighborhood under Youngstown 2010. The timining is right.

You fight this battle. We make the commitment - NOW - to reclaim and fix this house up and lead by example, show how this can be done for other key properties in the city, make the politicians exercise a little authority, and set another example of "how to" coming out of Youngstown.

As time is a factor, I'm calling for a meeting this Saturday @ 12pm on 259 Park by all interested parties to discuss in further detail. In the mean time, I'm going to meet with Mark Williams tomorrow. Let's all bring whatever information we can to the table while spreading the word about this effort and meeting.

[westsider]

I'd also be willing to help. (like Jay, I'd donate all or a portion of my "stimulus" check)  I'd be happy to go with someone to photo-document the place, too.

[AllanY2525]

If such a non-profit were to be established, I WOULD donate some of my
own financial resources to help out as much as I am able to, given my
current situation. 

I might be able to donate as much as $500.00 to the cause - IF it got up
and running, and IF there were a substantial possibility of something
actually being DONE about this place.  I am only sorry that I cannot do
more to help on this one - other than donating my time to do the leg
work, etc.

The County Treasurer agent that I spoke with today said that the
University has been trying to help fix up the Wick Park Historic
District....has anyone approached Y.S.U. about a possible combined
effort to save this house?  This house would make a WONDERFUL
place for YSU students - as a "Residence Hall".  Each college student
could pay a set fee (like $300 a month) to live in this house, with
"all utilities included".  This could include free Internet service via
a shared wireless network in the building, as well as basic (ie: local only)
telephone service and perhaps basic cable TV service.  With THIRTEEN
bedrooms, the place could definitely generate enough rental revenues
to pay the huge cost of heating, etc for this house.  $300 times 13
bedrooms would be just short of  $4,000 a month in revenues, or
~ $48,000.00 a year in gross cash flow.

Whoever buys this place would be eligible for Historic Tax Credits,
also - because this house is undoubtedly already on the Register of
Historic Places.  My apartment building, and two other properties
that I own, are already registered - I didn't have to do anything in
this regard when I purchased them.  They were automatically
registered because of their age, and because they are in the Wick
Park District.

Jaime: If you are interested in starting a non-profit entity, you might
want to contact my attorney - he is the guy who incorporated me in
the State of Ohio in 2006 as "Northside Renaissance Properties, LLC".
He could probably give you advice on how to create a non-profit
entity.

His contact info is:

Attorney John Petroney
30 East McKinley Way
Poland, OH 44514

Phone: 330-758-2445
FAX:    330-757-2411


Allan

[jay]

If a nonprofit "Save the House at 259 Park Avenue Association" is established, I would be willing to donate some money from my IRS tax rebate.

[AllanY2525]

OK folks,

My time and resources are fully occupied with the four properties I own around
the Wick Historic District - but I did some "leg work" via telephone today, in
the interest of doing what I can to help out with this property and its current,
despicable condition. 

Here's what I did and what information I have been able to gather online and
by telephone as of this afternoon:

The information below is from the Mahoning County Auditor's website.  There is
now a tax lien against the property at 259 Park Avenue, from what the website shows.

SOLD TAX LIEN RETURN MAIL
OPTIMUM/CINTINA/NET RELATIONS
RETURN MAIL
YOUNGSTOWN, OH 44503 USA

Annual Tax       $1,568.52
Taxes Paid     $0.00
Delinquent Taxes     $1,842.44

I spoke with  CINTINA (the lien holder) this afternoon, and there is a total
of (Case #06CV4646)  back property taxes in amt of.  2,302.05 due as
of December,  2006.  According to CINTINA, the foreclosure process has
not yet begun on this property.  In order to find out what OTHER lien holders
there are on this parcel, a title search would have to be done.  This would
cost about $250.00. 

I called Metro Land Title Agency, Inc. This afternoon.  I spoke with
Leonard Schiavone and explained the situation regarding 259 Park
Avenue, and that Jaime Hughes is trying to save this place from
the wrecking ball.  Leonard's family bought a large tract of land
from my Great-Grandmother in Canfield back in the 1970's to build
a country club on.

JAIME - if you are seriously interested in saving this place and
can put together a legitimate group of people, Leonard at
Metro Land Title says that you can call him at the number below
on weekdays (until 6:30 pm) and he would be WILLING to talk about
the possibility of a FREE title search (donated to your organization)
to identify any and ALL lien holders against this property.

330-744-4137
Leonard Schiavone
x205 voicemail
till 6:30

I called both the Auditor's office and the Mahoning County Treasurer this
afternoon as well.  In additon, I spoke with Tito Jamal Brown (the current
Third Ward Councilman - this house is in his district) and explained the
situation, as described here on the MV Message boards.  He promised me
that he would talk to the city, etc about getting the place boarded up
and secured - AGAIN............

I think that Mr. Van Sickle is probaby elderly (and ill, also) as he
cannot be reached (per Jaime Hughes).  I searched the Mahoning
County Courts Public Access website today for his name, and found
the following info: (too much to list here - see the URL below)
but basically, they have tried to serve him with subpoenas [sp?]
many times and were unable to serve most of them successfully
as his forwarding address is not known.

http://courts.mahoningcountyoh.gov/pa/pa.urd/pamw2000.docket_lst?68010962

Jaime, do you think you could put together a group of folks and start a
"Save the house at 259 Park Avenue" association?  May be they could
seek out donations from people who would be willing to help (financially)
to save this beautiful old house.  If you go to Leonard at the title co.
with proof that you (and your group of volunteers, etc) are "really serious"
about saving this place, he probably WILL give you a title search, to
start the ball rolling.

I would like for someone to go into this house (NOT by themselves, of
course...) and photo-document the place from the attic right down to
the basement - so that I can put the photos up on my Historic Homes
and Buildings website, WHILE it still exists.

I would also like to get as much historical information as possible on
this old house - a bio on the original family that built and lived in it,
etc.

CINTINA's INFO:

Cintina: 866-530-0766
2006:  Case #06CV4646  Property Taxes in amt of.  2,302.05 Dec 2006

There is also a case #CV99 that was filed in 2007 - the Treasurer's Office told me
that this is most likely a civil suit, because it begins with "CV" (ie: nOT tax related)
which means that there is probably a bank (mortgage) suing Mr Van Sickle over this
place.



ADDITIONAL AVENUES OF HELP(?)

This non-profit agency might be willing/able to help someone (or some persons)
negotiate to take ownership of this property:

Lien Forward Ohio:   330-259-1040

[rusty river]

If contact info for the owners of these properties is known, then they should be posted on this forum. I would be more than happy to contact them and voice my opinions over the state in which they have let the structures decay into. Perhaps this site can organize a "phone blitz" of sorts to put the pressure on these negligent owners and the city for not adequately addressing the issue.

[Jaime Hughes]

This story is all too familar. Were still watching over 259 Park Avenue near Wick Park but it's a lost cause. Drive by the house, you'll see that the garage doors are ripped open exposing the inside (and a lot of antique furniture), the doors are kicked open...all of the heater ducts have been ripped out and thrown into the backyard, and the basement door has been kicked in (again) but I will never venture into a basement for fear of what I will find.

I will post it as soon as I load it but they posted a LETTER on the door of this abandoned house, saying that the owner had to do these things:

- Replace/Board up any broken windows.
- Cut grass/clean up debris in yard.
- Replace sidings/bricks/falling patches of housing.
- Paint/Replace all trim around doors and windows.
- Paint any chipped parts of the household.

Thats just a minor list of actions that needed to be done. This letter was posted a few months ago and improvement has YET to be seen. The consequence for this action, at $100.00 ticket from the city. It could double up to 500.00 if not paid by a certain date (which I'm sure wasnt).

The house is the first house ever built on Park Avenue and the district was still considered Youngstown Township. The house also housed the first Pharmacist to come to Youngstown ever. I went to the MVHS to see old pictures of it and if you could see you would be sick to your stomach.
This house will most definatly be on the demolition list in a year or two... it's hard because we can't care for the house without the owners consent but he doesn't care about the house either and refuses to get in contact about it.

I like the Wick Park revitalization idea, but I also believe that families won't move into an area because of a "nice park" they need nice neighborhoods to live in, they don't want to live next door to a crack house or a house that looks like it's in shanties. I'm all about improvement but, I would rather deal with a roudy park than a crack/whore house next door to me.

[Towntalk]

This is a major problem that Jay tried to point out to the callers. Since the owners are absentee owners who live in Nevada, the police would have to contact them to determine if indeed the occupants were there with the owners permission, and the police argue that they have more important things to do than chase all over the country hunting down absentee landlords (property owners).

If a crime is committed and the police have the information to present to the prosecutor that they gathered, that's a whole new story.

This brings up the problem of out of state people buying up property to flip.

A week doesn't go by that there aren't two or three of these local properties listed, and in 99% of the cases these houses are in an advanced state of decay, but are selling at a lot more than they are worth to other people that have no intention of fixing them up. Most of them are in bad parts of the city riddled with crime (South Side).

These same flippers are spreading out and if they are allowed to get hold of houses in such areas as the Wick Park Historic District, you can bet that we'll soon find it in the same condition as exists on the South Side.

Jay said something that should be seriously considered ... spot imminent domain ... whereby the city can seize individual properties.

There are a couple of local historical preservation groups that these properties could be turned over to for restoration and preservation so that the city wouldn't have to go into the real estate business, and perhaps that is the answer.

[Frank Bellamy, MAP Masters of Applied Politics]

From what I understand about the law in that regard is, The occupant has possession of the property [possession is 9/10 of the law] and even if the owner on record objects to the occupant’s possession of the home he may have to seek or file for a civil court eviction…Unless the owner can show or claim that the home was broken into by the occupant…it becomes almost the police officer’s discretion then…and if the officer feels that there is any truth to the occupant’s claim he may do nothing and just refer to owner to civil court and the housing code office.

[jay]

If the house in question does not have the utilities turned on, then the structure is in violation of a housing occupancy code.

Question
Is there an aspect of the law that would require an occupant to show ownership, rent receipts, or written permission to live in the house?