Topic: Wind Farms

[Rick Rowlands]

I am all for renewable energy, and would like to incorporate as much as possible into the design of the Tod Engine Heritage Park.  Our first foray into renewables is to install solar panels on top of a diesel locomotive which is coming to the Park for display.  The locomotive has segveral deep cycle batteries on board.  They are used as starting batteries, but will also become the basis for providing our 120 VAC single phase electrical needs.  That means the days of us using a 3000 watt generator over there are coming to an end. (we don't have commercial power yet).  The panels would keep the batteries charged.

I've also considered that site for wind generation.  I don't think a large generator would be feasible, but even a 5 or 10 KW unit would provide for all of our needs and provide extra to sell to First Energy.  The problem is the huge up front cost, unless I can build one myself from components.  The first step is to do a year long wind study, and I think the State of Ohio has a program to assist in getting that done.

Also thought about geothermal for heating the building.  The Tod Engine is a huge heatsink.  If I can place a geothermal system inside the engine's foundation, that would keep the entire engine warm which in turn would warm the building.  As long as that iron doesn't cool off the building should stay comfortable year round.   I haven't yet determined how many wells would be needed or how deep we would have to drill.

[Youngstownshrimp]

Jay,

Let's say 200 independent parcels are submitted to you for wind energy on Lake Milton, what would you do?

[AllanY2525]

I made the same point regarding Lake Milton a long time ago....they never should have given it away.
They should have applied for an emergency government grant to repair (and retro-fit for electrical
generators) the dam instead.

I wonder if there is anywhere in the Mahoning Valley where Geothermal energy might be available. It
can also be used to generate electricity.

:/

[AllanY2525]

I think the city should aim for multiple sources of electrical power to throw into the
local power grid.  These include:

1) "paddle-wheel" style generators on the Mahoning River.  The steel industry built several
low-rise dams in the river over the years in order to pool enough water to feed and cool
the mills.  Since these dams are going to be removed when the river is cleaned up by
the E.P.A. (timeframe??) they might as well be replaced by new dams (maybe higher ones
to pool more water for the generation of electricity by water turbines???)

2) Solar power stations on some of the city's growing acres of vacant land.

3) Wind Turbines - which should ideally be located on top of a hill.  There are several wind turbines
located on a hillside along the Pennsylvania Turnpike between Youngstown and Pittsburgh.  I am
still awed by them everytime I make a trip home to Youngstown.

4) The Mahoning County land fill is a potential source of methane gas, which could be used to
generate electrical power as well.

If the city/county were to use all four of the sources outlined above, they could probably generate
a considerable amount of electricity from them - maybe enough to reduce the current local rates,
or at least battle the rising costs of electricity in the area.

Some info on wind turbines:

http://pepei.pennnet.com/display_article/293559/6/ARTCL/none/none/Wind-Turbines:-Designing-With-Maintenance-in-Mind/

The article on the web site mentions the height of the average turbine being about that of a 20 story building.  Some turbines
mentioned in the article generate power in the MEGAWATTS range.  A megawatt of electricity is a LOT of power for residential
customers.  The article also states that the typical service life of a wind turbine is about 20 years, and that newer turbines
are being designed with lower maintenance and repair costs in mind.  (Things like an on-board crane in each tower, eliminating
the need to bring in a crane rig for most maintenance and repairs)

A very interesting article, for sure.  Try doing a Google search using the following"

"wind turbines" cost maintenance capacity  (use the quotes for the first two words)

[jay]

It is unfortunate that the city gave the Lake Milton property away.  We could have used that land for a wind farm.  We could have also used the water from the dam to generate hydropower.

[Towntalk]

Questions:

How much power does one wind turbine generate per hour?

How many turbines would be needed to see a saving in our electric bill?

What is the cost to return ratio?

Since the electricity generated would go first into the grid and be fed to all the Ohio Edison customers in this service area would the average customer notice a savings of any substantial amount?

Say the months Ohio Edison bill was $60.00 for the month, how much could be deducted from that bill if there were say four wind farms serving Mahoning County? (Approximate)

What is the original cost of building a Wind turbine farm, and how long would it take for that farm to show a profit?

Finally, what would it cost in terms of hiring employees to operate and service these facilities, and how would these costs affect the final savings to the consumers?

[westsider]

Let's look at the block defined by: Oak Hill, Myrtle, Hillman, and Kenmore as an example of a fairly typical block on Youngstown's south side.  From what I can see on the 2005 aerial photos, this block is already partially empty, and it seems likely that there are fewer structures there now.

This block of land is about 1060' x 260' and could probably support 3 properly spaced wind turbines.  They could feed into the existing power grid.  How many other blocks could be converted to (wind) farmland?  If there are only 10 suitable blocks, that's still equivalent to 10% of the total number of wind turbines currently found in the entire country of New Zealand. (Per Wikipedia)

Disclaimer:
This was a "quick and dirty" analysis that doesn't take into consideration topography, or windspeed.

[Towntalk]

Given the number of windmills that would be needed to supply the city, I'd say in the country at four different locations (North - South - East - West) the question is, just how many would it take at each location. How tall are they from ground to the highest point on the blade?

Where in each location is there land enough to be devoted to a windmill farm, and how would you deal with jurisdictional issues? With the communities here in Mahoning County so compacted, and so jealous of their own jurisdiction it would have to be a private company that would operate the windmill farms to avoid the sort of fights that we see over water.

Since the farms would be in the jurisdiction of other communities in the county, it seems to me that thy would receive the best benefits in order to get the permission to build the farms, so where would that leave Youngstown?

[jay]

It was a very windy day in Youngstown today. 

I have a general question about suitable locations for wind farms.
Name some areas of the Mahoning Valley which would be good locations for these wind farms.  Should they be located on top of hills, on top of buildings, in the country, or on flat land?